265 "Nephilim Derangement Syndrome" ft. Nelly from The Dancing Toaster, Dismantling Jeremiah Johnston's Nephilim rhetoric on Shawn Ryan show, Genesis 6, young Earth, aliens are demons

⭐️Affiliate item of the week: The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the Bible by Michael Heiser: https://amzn.to/4mpsIsS

Our friend Nelly from The Dancing Toaster podcast is back and tonight we will be talking about the things we all wrestle.

Pastor Nelly is the creator and voice behind The Dancing Toaster and The Man-Eating Toaster—two podcasts that fearlessly explore the shadowy intersections of theology, conspiracy, and the paranormal. With a background in biblical studies and a passion for exposing the overlooked and the unsettling, Nelly crafts immersive, noir-inspired narratives that blend ancient texts, government secrets, folklore, and fringe science. Whether diving into the Nephilim, CIA mind control experiments, haunted relics, or cultic atrocities, his work challenges the official story and invites listeners to question what’s real, what’s hidden, and what’s been buried on purpose. Armed with skepticism, scripture, and a dancing toaster mascot, Nelly isn’t just telling stories—he’s pulling back the veil.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Institutions have become the right. Uninstitutional agencies are depending on the right. Welcome to the dangerous day podcast. Jesse James is dangerous. And Outcast. Jesse James. Dangerous, dangerous state. State plus state battle.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

I'm not political, all right. I don't believe in Republican and Democrat because it's not in the Constitution. It's not in our Declaration of Independence. It's just American, one nation under God. Whatever they do, they do is one. The trick is to give us the illusion that there is a choice, that there is a separation, to keep us fighting over these things. These things right here. Five generations now. We're working harder than our great-great-great-grandparents and our grandparents did, who had no education, who sent their first generations to college. We were on our way somewhere. And then something happened in the 50s. One of the big things I think that happened is they took the Bible out of school. People don't know, a lot of you young people don't even know the Bible was curriculum. And I'm not religious, once again, but it the Bible gives us a strong moral code to live by. We were family, we were community, we knew our neighbors. Our children played outside, met new friends. Those new friends wanted to spend the night and they had to ask their parents, and their parents became friends. Today, mom's in the park on fentanyl, and we think fentanyl, they give us this propaganda about it comes from China, it comes from here. They didn't want this stuff in this country, it wouldn't be here. This is a weapon against us. There is an attack on all of us: red, blue, conservative, liberal, it doesn't matter. The American is under attack. Our dollar is go is buying a lot less. We're working a lot harder for it. We're losing our constitutional rights, whether you realize it or not.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

This program is not intended to treat, cure, prevent, or diagnose any disease. Join Jesse James and Outcast as they dial into the truth so you can keep your head on a swivel and guard your heart from the focused fear they're trying to throw at us every day. Welcome to the Dangerous Dumble Topic.

SPEAKER_09 3:30

It is April 14th, another Monday, Monday, Monday. That's right, April 14th, 2026. Welcome to the spiritual and the cultural battle of our lives, where truth is dangerous and information is a weapon. Yes, welcome to the dangerous info podcast. Tonight we have episode 265 with our good friend Nelly. Yes, Nelly is coming back, Outcast. We have a show called Nephilim Wickedness. Yes, you guys know Nelly from the Dancing Toaster Podcast. We're gonna get into it tonight. Oh, I can't wait. I think he's gonna be joining us really quickly, Outcast. So we're gonna have to get rid of this uh you know all the stuff up front that we normally take care of. Yeah. And you're right, it's not it's not Monday. Thank you. It's uh Tuesday. For me, it feels like a Monday because we weren't here yesterday, but it's still April 14th. So thank you, Music Lover, out there, Outcast. Uh she got me.

SPEAKER_05 4:26

She's got her eye on everything. Nothing, nothing escapes her her observation, and it is it is a keen observation for sure.

SPEAKER_09 4:33

Yeah, well, thank you, uh Music Lover and everybody else. I know you guys were thinking, well, it's Tuesday, because I, you know, I had listen, I was out of town. I had to to to scramble and get some things done. Luckily, Outcast and and uh Music Lover and Jack Pine, and we have uh Nelly. Everything was able to work itself out tonight. It was real close here at the beginning. We uh for some reason we were offline. Now it's hopefully we hold. Listen, Outcast. Um, let's get us over to this other screen. Well, before we switch screens, look at that, look at that, you guys. For for you viewers, everybody out there in the chats. I want to say welcome, Rumble, uh, YouTube. Um, what else we have? Oh, pill.net. And I think we're running over uh oh for sure on Twitch, but it's either Facebook or either uh bit you, one of the two. I don't know which one I clicked, but hey, we're live in five different spots tonight, and I want to see that everybody sees this. Uh there's a toaster outcast on our screen right now. All right. See that toaster? A couple pieces of slices of toast there. And go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 5:37

I gotta I gotta say it's it's our happiest looking uh show logo that I we've ever had. I love it. It is fantastic.

SPEAKER_09 5:44

Now, I um this is all based on on Nelly's show, uh the Dancing Toaster Podcast, right? So I kind of tweaked some things. Uh you know, I I worked with uh one of these AI things, and uh I I fed it some lines that I talked about the other day, and it came up with this. So I it's not quite as clean as what Nelly does for his, but hey, it's fun, it's a lot of a lot of color, and it is what it is. That's what we came up with tonight, and uh, I think it's pretty good. Uh it's not too bad, outcast, is what I'm saying. So I think it's great. I love it. We're gonna go with it. Yeah, I like it. So we're gonna go with it, and uh, so yes, everybody, welcome, welcome to the show tonight. Um, Nelly will be joining us really soon. He is in the green room now, uh, but we have a few things to take care of, outcast, before we get uh to it. Now, I was um I couldn't be here last night. We couldn't do the show last night. I was in New York City outcast. Nobody knew until just yep.

SPEAKER_05 6:43

The belly of the beast.

SPEAKER_09 6:45

I never planned on going to New York City. I never really wanted to, um, but I my daughter, she lives there now. So I we went and we'll probably go again. I don't want to get deep into it because I did do a lot of filming when I was there. Well, kind of a lot of filming. Um, but uh, you know, there's we'll get into it at some point. I won't I don't mind going back to New York City. Um if if I don't have to, I'm not gonna miss it. Uh I'm not saying I hated it. No, it wasn't a hate thing. Um, the big city is a completely different way to live. When I say big city, I mean look, we can walk around Detroit all the time, right? Uh it it's we we we know that this is a completely different beast. Completely different beast, what I'm saying, brother. Uh, you've been there in the past, but uh uh it's concrete jungle. I always called it that. Well, it never felt more like a concrete jungle than uh than what I was there. New York City's crazy, man. Uh, but we'll get into it. I I I do I do not hate New York City though. Uh there's certain aspects I do not like, and there's some that I do like. Um, but uh anything quick before we jump off of that.

SPEAKER_05 7:54

I was just gonna say, I for whatever it's worth, when I was a uh punk rock, you know, when I was in a punk band, we played in the lower east side of Manhattan in the early 90s. We're talking 91, 92.

SPEAKER_04 8:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:04

Uh, and we played Brooklyn. That's a whole different scene. I mean, I don't know what it's like now. I think it's gent it's all gentrified now, but at the time it was uh it was pretty rough territory. Um, so I saw that rough side of it. And then when I grew up and got a big boy job, I my company for a while was based in New York City and I was there regularly, uh semi-regularly, like a couple times a year. And I, you know, you're right. It's not horrible. It's it's a neat place, it's it's hustle and bustle, it's it's big, it's got that almost like that Vegas feel when you're in Times Square. It's yeah, it's interesting.

SPEAKER_09 8:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:32

Uh, but I will say this, and I'm not trying to cast a spurge on anybody that lives in New York City, but uh, I got into some deep conversations with people at my home office, and they were um, how do I want to word this? Uh, morally, everybody was real shady. They were all it seemed like sex clubs were a thing. They were all bisexual. I mean, every I was the more I learned, I was like, whoa, I I am mid too Midwest for this. This is not for me at all. You know what I mean? Yeah. So uh that's so that's just some thoughts for you. I saw I saw two different sides. I saw the business end and I saw the grassroots uh, you know, uh level of you know, music scene and artists and weirdos and freaks and the whole thing.

SPEAKER_09 9:09

Well, it's all still there, it's all still there. It might have changed a little bit, a different algorithm, but it's all still there and all crazy. Uh uh Amber Dawn, she says, praying for y'all's prayers appreciated. Uh 12 days until my first move, and Bella is struggling in New York. Unsaved mom is gaslighting, but I'm still trusting God and staying obedient. I despise New York, especially the Bronx. Hey, listen, I'm I I yes, yes, yeah. Like I said, I was only there for a few nights, and um I understand. I understand Amber Dawn is what I'm saying. Uh there's there's a lot of darkness. Uh I I call it a principality and a stronghold. We're gonna be talking about that stuff tonight. Uh, I went to the 9-11 stuff, and um it's again, I've I've got videos and I'd rather do this at a different time. Um, but let's get over to our um item of the week. Outcast, we had item of the week. We started that last week and it worked good. Somebody bought it. Um this week we have another item of the week, and it is that book right there by Dr. Michael Heiser, you guys. Uh, our affiliate item of the week, The Unseen Realm Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the Bible by Michael Heiser. Uh, there's Outcast. Uh I I've got the book too, and Outcast you're holding up on the screen, and I'm gonna read just a little bit about it. It says, uh, unlock the ancient supernatural worldview that shaped the Bible, talking snakes, giants, a heavenly council, imprisoned spirits. Your Bible is filled with strange things, but what do they mean and why do they matter? In this unseen realm by Michael Heiser, he unveils the supernatural worldview of the Bible and he uh shows how understanding the Bible's ancient context reveals surprises hiding in plain sight today. And there's so much of that. Uh I I listen, it's a great book. We both have it, Outcast, and I want you guys to get it. The link is down below. In in all the wherever you're watching or listening, I put the link right there at the beginning. You'll see the little star there. Click the link. It's our affiliate link that helps us, gives us a few pennies on the back end, doesn't cost you any more, any of that stuff. So that's our affiliate of the week. Uh link this week. Outcast, what's you what say you on this book?

SPEAKER_05 11:23

I just finished it and I'm I'm gonna actually go back and read the last two chapters again because I want to make sure I didn't rush through it. Um, I I actually took an arduous amount of time to get through it because I was cross-referencing the Bible as I was going through it, yeah, which was maybe not necessary and maybe slowed my role a little bit, but I I wanted to learn my Bible better while I went about it. But uh Michael Heiser, what a brilliant mind. And what what he does that's what's that's unique is he understands the context or the thinking of the people of the time necessary and made a whole different worldview than we have. Yeah. Uh we have a very limited worldview that's been pounded into us through school. The the the biblical world had a different uh view of things and he sheds light on it by examining the Hebrew, the Greek, the Aramaic, and also the cultures and and the belief systems at the time, which would have been uh overly apparent to them, but is not to us. And he peels back the layers and constantly makes references from the Old Testament and how it foreshadows uh Jesus Christ and how it brings us into the family of Christ. And it is it is profound. I had these moments where I was just like, holy cow, I had to sit there at my kitchen table. I'm like, Lord, let me just fully absorb this. Um, there's just tons of moments like that through the whole book. He is um God rest his soul. Michael Heiser did us a great service by uh just painstakingly putting this heavily researched book together, and he made it a digest, it's not I'm not gonna get, don't get me wrong, it is a challenging read at times, but yeah, it is digestible for the regular folk like us. Uh uh a scholar wrote it for people like us, and um it's it's a beautiful book. So I recommend it to every anybody that wants to go the next level deeper into not just the Nephilim, but all kinds of things that we overlook in the Bible. It's really a cool book.

SPEAKER_09 13:01

Yeah, that's kind of all the stuff that brought me back to it too, because uh I never learn about all these supernatural things that are in there. And uh so when when I when I learned about what Dr. Michael Heiser was talking about, it really got me interested and got me back into opening that book up and looking to find out more. And and now I see the Bible totally different now. Um uh I have so much more interest in reading it than I did my whole life growing up as a kid, you know, my first 15 years. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 13:29

For weirdos like us that like to approach the Bible from this this angle, he is definitely one of the forerunners. He's he's the he's a pione pioneer in that thinking, but he's not just somebody who's got ideas, he's got he's got the research behind it. I mean, he is a true Bible scholar, so yeah. Um, anyways, just that's that's my take on it.

SPEAKER_09 13:47

Awesome. Thank you for that feedback, Alcast. And uh that is our item of the week. You guys go check that out, please. And if you want to help the show, buy one, give one to somebody else. It's it's really good book. Uh, and we'll like I said, it's in it's in all the descriptions that you're watching or listening, and um it's gonna be in the Discord uh later tonight. So if you're in the Discord and you want to be there in our Discord chat group, go on and check that out. So, Outcast, we have a bit of of uh uh let me see, feedback and some uh what is this the iTunes some rating, yeah. Let's go over here to some rating, if you will. All right, check this out, outcast. Right here we have hey Nelly, Nelly's watching. I brought him out here. Here's our um Spotify and our Spotify or not Spotify outcast. This is our Apple Tunes, iTunes. And scroll down, and right here is a uh 100th, it says says, God bless you both. I have been an audio listener for years, and this is the one show I listen to every week, and that's a five-star, and it comes from Thorny4565. So thank you, Thorny, and that was on Thursday the other day, outcast. So, what do you think of that?

SPEAKER_05 14:56

Oh, that's that's encouraging. I love hearing that because I don't know why I'm insecure sometimes. I think, what are we doing? Are we doing this right? And then somebody's like says something like this, and it makes me feel good. So I need it. I like the God sends us encouragers.

SPEAKER_09 15:08

Yes, thank you, Thorny. Uh, we don't know who that is, but it looks like a familiar name that's been on these chats in the past. So uh thank you, Thorny, uh, for being out there. And um, anybody else if you want to go out there? Uh we'll try reading those uh when we get those in. Now I've got another one outcast, and this is from our uh regular listener, uh Amber Dawn. And I just wanted to share this with you, uh, with Music Lover. Um if you want to talk about it, because I did give you a little preview and I'll bring it up. I'll I'll prep the screen up here in just a second.

SPEAKER_05 15:41

If you wanna once again, I'm gonna say I'm gonna say this the timing of these things, of these encouragements, are unbelievable. Um I before I'm just gonna tell you this, and we can get into it later if you want, but I I did I had had to work an event all day today, and I got talking to another rep from another company. And uh it's a long story, but I kind of started being myself talking about my faith and weird stuff. And this young lady, millennial gal, her name is Madison, and I'm gonna ask you guys to please pray for Madison. Uh, she was like, Um, I don't believe in anything. Um, I mean, she got really and and I'm gonna tell you something. Uh if I sound brave in what I'm saying here, I even these people they they rattle me a little bit. They make me a little jittery because they're so obstinate. But she managed to tell me very depressed, she said, I know it's extremely depressing, but I don't think that there's anything to our lives and we just die and we're just we mean nothing and we're made from nothing. And then I'm like, so so I went to so you she goes, I I do believe in the universe. And I said, But do you believe in the well I be I said I believe in the one who made the universe? Yahweh of the Bible is the one who made the universe. Now I'm talking confidently now, but I was trying to be meet her where she was at, or but at the same time, she had a toude. So this this kind of put me in a mood, but I I did I I held my ground and I think I gave her things to think about. And I told her, I said, Listen, just take everything we said today. You you don't have to believe it, just kind of put it back here in your memory bank. And I said, if you ever reach the end of yourself and you feel like there's no place else to turn, just remember you can call in the name of Jesus and and remember this conversation that he has never forsaken you and he's never giving up on you, and you can call on him. And and dude, I'm telling you, she had a tear in her eye, but she her words were obstinate. And um, I I didn't focus on the tear. I looked away, I thought that was a private moment, and then I saw her out of the corner of my eye wipe her tear away. So I don't know what's going on with this person. Um, but she was like, Hey, I'm not, I'm not mad at you. I don't care, I don't care what you believe, I don't care what anybody believes, but I just don't believe anything. So so I came off of that. I was kind of feeling a little wobbly because it was kind of a challenging witness. And then I had a little road rage on the way home and I was disappointed in myself because I drive all the time. And then you showed me this next um thing that you're gonna read, and it it choked me up because it kind of recentered my faith a little bit and recentered where we're trying to get to, which is a heavenly family where uh, you know, it's not just your earth, you know, when you get to heaven, you think of Johnny Cash's song, you know, the the family circle in the sky. Yeah, I'm not I'm not talking about grandma and grandpa and mom and dad and brother. I mean, all of us who are believers, and it's funny, I'm thinking and it made me think of Nelly too, because I've got these people in our lives who are such legitimate real believers in Christ. And I I feel like a a unique agape godlike love in my heart for all the believers that God has put in my path. Yeah. Richard Sanchez. Oh, yeah, for sure. Tom, you know, brother Tom, uh, Pastor Eric. I mean, I just I feel this warm. That's we're gonna imagine that times a thousand in heaven. We're gonna be gathered together. Amber Dawn, we're gonna be gathered, music lover as a family, right? In Christ. Oh man, I got it gives me chills. So when she when I read that, I was driving, trying to drive and read. I it's choking me up like it is right now. Yeah, it's like God sends us encouragers.

SPEAKER_09 18:47

I think um so do you guys uh you guys probably know how I do those little uh reels, right? About the talking about the show that's coming up. And I did one the other day, and that's the one I recorded when I was in New York, so that you know we could uh bump it from Monday to Tuesday. That's what that short, that reel that I made was all about. Well, she she commented on that, and I don't remember where it was at, but I but I've got the the comment right here. And this is from Amber, it says Amber Thomas, she's Amber Dawn, you guys. Um she says, Jesse and Outcast, pray y'all are staying blessed in this ever-increasing battle. Today is 12 days before God is relocating me and leaving everything, my family, 46 years of familiarity, uh, to be closer to a group of believers. The enemy is big man. As I sit and journal to Abba and thank him for his love, grace, and mercy, the holy charge, uh, the Lord, the holy charge the Lord has called me only becomes more clear. I just want to say how much I love y'all and everyone across the miles. Uh, music lover and all these peeps I have never met in physical, but feel so deeply connected to in the spiritual. I think about the this uh disciples and the beginning of their journey, and I gotta switch to the other one because it's um goes into the next page. Okay. Let me get rid of this one here and bring up another. Hold on, y'all. There it is. Um I think about the disciples and how uh in the beginning of their journey, how confused, fearful, and frustrated they may have been, but they understood the assignment and had faith. They were not perfect, but they trusted a perfect God. I always wanted to say I love y'all and always lifting you in prayer as you answer the call in Jesus' perfect name. Holy name, amen. So there it is, you guys. And that felt you made you feel a lot better, right? That made you feel a ton better.

SPEAKER_05 20:44

It did. It did. I needed that. It's funny. God sends us encouragers when we right when we need it. I I it's happens to me over and over again. It's crazy. So thank you for sharing that today, Jesse. That that meant a lot to me. It was delivered right on time. Awesome.

SPEAKER_09 20:57

Well, hey, that's how it's supposed to work, man. Uh, I appreciate it. So, yeah, thank you, uh, music lover, uh, for for putting that together. And you know, she she's putting together stuff that I can put on the screen for uh Amber and everybody else out there. So thank you guys so much. Um we need to get a prayer as we uh be just before we bring Nelly on here, Outcast. We got a lot of stuff to get into, you guys. When I say a lot of stuff, I'm talking about, yeah, uh Nephilim wickedness and uh principalities, demonic uh strongholds. Um there's a lot. There's just so much is what I'm saying, outcast. So let's bob bow our heads, everybody, and we'll uh give over this uh outcast opening prayer.

SPEAKER_05 21:39

Dear Heavenly Father, Adonai, El Shade, Elohim, Jehovah Rapha, Lord of heaven and earth, Yahweh. We love you so we love you so much because we know you love us. You've never given up on us and you've pursued us in our rebellion. When we fall short, you don't hold us you don't. Don't hold us to who we were, you hold us accountable to who we can be in you. And we thank you for for just pursuing us and loving us even when we're unlovable. We thank you for the shed blood of Jesus Christ that makes it all possible. Lord, we thank you for the uh extended body of Christ, the family of Christ. Not just our immediate family, but P anybody who's a true believer in their heart becomes inextricably linked to us, Lord, and we feel just a just a taste of that love that we're gonna feel in the heavenly realms when we are joined together with you. Lord, we thank you for giving us just tastes of heaven. Just little snippets. And we understand we can feel how real the battle is and how it rages on in the heavenly realms also. Maybe it's the second heaven where the battle takes place and we're going to the third heaven, regardless of how it shakes out. Lord, we know that evil still rages on, rebellion still rages, and we're gonna have a role to play in that battle as well. It's not gonna be just floating around on a cloud and playing a harp. We are gonna be warriors in the next realm, just as Jesus Christ is a warrior that's gonna return to uh pay final judgment to the earth. But Lord, we thank you for this episode. We thank you for this podcast. We invite you in to our hearts and our minds, align our hearts and minds with Christ. Help us to understand who you are better and who we are in you. May it be conveyed into the lives of the listeners. May each person listening gain something new to take home and write on the tablet of their heart that they can apply to their own ministry when they're talking to other people that they run into. May it be invigorating and new that reaches ears that have been turned off to you. May there be uh new insights that that just find a way into the listener's ear so they can they can find a new way to connect with you as opposed to the old way, which is uh sleepy and Laodicean. We want to find a passionate, fiery new way. Lord, we thank you for our guest tonight, uh our Pastor Nelly. Lord, we respect him, we love him, he's researched, he's articulate, he's passionate. He is just a firecracker of your love, Lord, and we we love him the same way you do. And we are so excited that he was willing to come on. Um we want to talk about some deep stuff, and he's the guy that helped us do it. He knows more than Jesse and I, and we just love that about him. And he's just so willing to participate in the body of Christ like this. It's just amazing. Thank you for his obedience, Lord. We thank you for his uh his friendship. And we pray that every listener feels that same thing off of what he says tonight. Abba Father, um, protect us from technical glitches and the attacks of the enemy, whether they be human enemies or spiritual enemies or the combination of the both. Put a mighty, a fiery hedge of protection around us. Send out your angels regarding us. Cover us from the crowns of our head to the soles of our feet in the precious blood of Jesus Christ. And may no weapon formed against us prosper, Lord. Just shore us up and make us into mighty warriors with the full armor of God. No matter what is thrown at us tonight, may we patch it together, keep it together, keep the battle lines strong, and get your message across, Lord. We thank you for any new listeners that are out there tonight, anybody that's seeking and hungry and looking, we pray that we'll be edifying manna from heaven for their for their ears, Lord. Um so move in us and to us and through us and into the lives of everyone involved. May everybody listening feel part of a family. May uh may we just sing your praises until it's time to come home with you, Lord. We pray for Christians around the world under extreme persecution. We pray that you will be their their provision in miraculous ways that they will just sing your praises and know that despite whatever physical circumstances they're going through in persecution, they will get those little signs that you are with them. We pray that you'll put uh send out your angels regarding them, put a hedge of protection around them, and we ask that you'll soften the hard hearts of their enemies and that their enemies will eventually be brought to their knees and surrender to the authority of Jesus Christ and be grafted into the family and become as ardently for you as they once were against you. We pray this for all Christians around the world. And Lord, we we pray that we will be able to reach just one more ear, one more heart to point them in the direction of you. We thank you for loving us, Lord, and teaching us how to love. We thank you for forgiving us, Lord, and teaching us how to forgive. We thank you for healing us, Lord, and helping us to guide people towards healing. And we thank you for encouraging us, Lord, sending us encouragers and teaching us how to encourage. Lord, bless this episode, bless every listener. We love you. Meet people where they are in their needs, we know you will. We pray that they will turn their hearts towards you and find resolution, healing, and peace by knowing you more intimately. May we not focus on what is seen, but what is unseen, for what is unseen is eternal and what is seen is temporary. Help us all to remember that every single day and know that we love you in the deepest, most passionately ways. In Jesus Christ's holy precious name, I pray these things. Amen.

SPEAKER_09 26:47

All right, brother, amen. Thank you so much. Awesome. Um, might as well just get to it, Alcast. I mean, let's let's get Nelly in here. That was awesome. All right. So listen, you guys, let's get let's switch over here and I'm gonna do a little intro to get him in and uh yeah, let's get this thing fired up, you guys. So, tonight, you guys, our friend Nelly from the Dancing Toaster Podcast is back, and tonight we will be talking about all the things that we wrestle. Uh, Pastor Nelly is the creator and voice behind the Dancing Toaster and the Man Eating Toaster Podcast. Uh, they both fearlessly explore those shadowy intersections of theology, conspiracy, and the paranormal with a background in biblical studies and passion for exposing the overlooked and the unsettling. Nelly craft's immersive, you guys gotta hear is what I'm saying. It goes into it. Uh the sound, the awesome, awesome audio uh work that he does over there is what I'm saying, outcast. Noir-inspired narratives that blend ancient text, government secrets, folklore, and fringe science. So, whether diving into the Nephilim, CIA mind control experiments, haunted relics, or cultural atrocities, his work uh challenges the official story and invites listeners to question what's real. You guys go check it out. He's got uh the at the dancing toaster on all his socials, his Spotify, his Apple iTunes. I've got it all listed down below. You guys go check it out. His Patreon is there too. Patreon.com slash the Dancing Toaster. Go check out Pastor Nelly. Nelly, what is going on, brother? Good to see you. And uh yeah, sorry you had to wait so long to get you in there. I know you've been watching us for the since the beginning, but uh, welcome back.

SPEAKER_08 28:22

No, thank you for having me back. No, it's totally fine. I got a new little setup. Uh I got I got the camera. I got the I'm trying to be official like you guys, so for I'm a little out of my element. It looks good. I got my got my new drip. Uh look at that.

SPEAKER_09 28:38

He's got swag outcast. He's got swag.

SPEAKER_08 28:42

Nice. So happy to be back with you guys. And uh man, you guys flatter me. I don't deserve any of that. Uh, thank you so much for the kind things you said and in the intro and in the in the prayer outcast. Thank you so much. And I'm just uh happy to hang out with you guys and happy to be back. And man, I'm I'm I'm no expert in anything. Uh I'm just uh I'm just a weird guy in his office who who loves Jesus and uh loves people and um trying to use what what what little I have and just give it back to the Lord. And so uh take some of those weird interests that I have and pump them through the the podcast. And um man, I I'm just glad there are people listening on the other end that I'm not just talking to myself here in my office. So yeah, you guys, I'm great.

SPEAKER_09 29:22

You guys really got to go listen, check out his his show. It's uh it's sound design. Uh I'll say it's kind of like our mystery pie, but on a higher level because you put so much effort and um I know what that takes. Research. Yeah, research, effort, all your different voices and all that stuff. I know what that takes, and how hard that is. That's why I don't do it. That's why we do what we do here because I don't have uh the time, uh the dedication like that that you have in that time. Uh it's it's crazy, but uh that you guys go listen to his uh, you know, the uh dancing toaster. It's a great podcast show. Outcast, what do you think?

SPEAKER_05 29:58

Pastor Nelly, I noticed you got some um you know Ecto 1 uh cars in your in your do you have do you have the old toy from the 80s that came or the 90s that came out for the cartoon? Do you have that one?

SPEAKER_08 30:09

So uh I I had that past tense. Funny story about that is I I had an original, but uh when we lived in Tennessee, my uh my little brother, he was driving it off the balcony of our two-story home. And uh, so that's why I had I had one past tense. So I've bought a re-release of the same one, but it's it's not an original.

SPEAKER_05 30:31

Well, yeah, I'm gonna rephrase this. You now have one because I'm gonna mail you one.

SPEAKER_08 30:36

Oh man, that's too outcast has a big collection of stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:41

Um I I gotta warn you, it's not it's not pristine. I think it's missing a door. It may be missing, so you may have to go on a scavenger hunt to find a few parts for it, but the the whole car, the whole thing is there. So it's awesome.

SPEAKER_08 30:53

Well, thank you. You can see I got so this one up here is uh uh it's it's to like a G.I. Joe scale Ecto one, but then there's a big one uh up there that's uh one 112th scale one that was uh a crowdfunding thing. So a little little bit of a of a Ecto One fan. And then this one back here is a popcorn bucket.

SPEAKER_05 31:14

Oh, God has been telling me for since we met you to send it to you.

SPEAKER_08 31:18

Well, thank you so much. I will receive that with gladness.

SPEAKER_05 31:21

All right, cool. Give me sure, give me, make sure you get I get your address and I'll send it to you. But Nellie, welcome back to the show. Um, the things I say are not flattery, they're from the heart. I seriously I think about people like you and like you in our in our in our friend circle who are actively on the show and contributing thoughts and ideas. And man, my heart just swells up. And I was listening to a podcast today with a guy that had a near-death experience, and he was talking about the family of Christ in heaven and what it felt like. And man, I was just thinking about all my brothers and sisters in Christ, and then you agreed to come on the show. I we know that you're busy, we know that you have your own agenda, you have your own show editing to do, but yet you agreed to come on when we asked you to. Uh, and it means a lot to us. We don't take that lightly. Um, so God bless you, brother. Thank you for your, like I said in the prayer, thank you for your obedience. Um, we really do appreciate you very much. My pleasure. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_09 32:07

That's right. And and also, I gotta say, before we switch off from you, Outcast, your shirt says Noah uh was a conspiracy theorist and until and then it rained. Yes, exactly. Listen, up until that point, nobody had seen rain. It never did rain up until then, until the flood came. Uh the the the water got their nutrition, their the the moisture up through the ground. It didn't rain. Yeah, springs and you know the morning mist and morning stuff, it never did rain back then. So awesome. That's that's another one of those things that uh that that that's out there, you guys can check it out. So um Nelly, we have what was it? Oh, I accidentally, when I was in New York, okay, I was just walking, I was taking pictures, and we were walking around, we're heading to breakfast one morning, and we turned this corner, and I was I told the wife and my daughter, I said, Look at that over there. That's that's that looks like the um Ghostbusters uh headquarters right there. We got a little bit closer and they're like, Where? And I said, right there, that sign. See it and then with the rounded garage door and everything. I said, I said, it is. It's what I said, somebody must really like Ghostbusters around here. As we got closer, we realized it's the original spot, the original location. Um, they're right. I was so jealous. Yeah, so we I accidentally walked to it. So I sent that picture to you guys, and um and you know, because I knew you you like the Ghostbusters and all that stuff, but yeah, we were right there. I've got some pictures, um, may have to send some more to you, but um it just happened by accident. It's crazy that uh we turned the corner and was there, and uh, you know, really cool place. It looks identical to it the way it did on the show, and it's right there in Tribeca. So um it's really cool area. It's uh really cool stuff.

SPEAKER_08 33:49

Yeah, some that's on my bucket list, man. I'm hoping uh just just go go see it one day. We'll we'll see.

SPEAKER_09 33:55

I can show you how to get there, brother. And and the best the bread, the best breakfast I've ever had, uh, a place called Bubbies, just around the corner. It's awesome place. Uh let me tell you, nothing is cheap in New York City. Hmm. Oh no, yeah, nothing is cheap. So, all right, listen, you guys, let's get into what the show is all about. So, I'll cast would you like to start? Uh either we have we have a few places to start, all right? Um I'll leave it up to you. Negative uh never Nephilim Wickedness. We can go into principalities, uh demonic, you know, strongholds. I kind of felt like I was in one of those this weekend. Um but there's a video that kind of kicked this whole podcast idea, this episode idea off, right? Uh that you sent to me last week.

SPEAKER_05 34:44

Yeah, so uh the the thing that got me fired up and I and I wanted Nelly's uh backup because of his knowledge and the how deep he can take things, and I thought he could do a better job than I could with it, but I've got I don't get me wrong, I do have things to say. Um, but I actively during Easter, I sent out uh a recent episode of the Sean Ryan show where he has a guest on named Jeremiah Johnston, who is an an expert on the the Shroud of Turin, which I'm a fan of. I love the Shroud of Turin stuff, I love to watch documentaries about it. Yeah, I've watched several. I don't I don't get tired of the information. He did have a fresh take on many things, and I really liked what he had to say for the for the most part. Towards the end of the show, well, a couple things that stood out to me, and we can play it. I think it's really interesting. At one point, uh Jeremiah Johnston says, and I'm gonna make a greater point here, and then we can kind of springboard off of this and play some of the segments. Uh Jeremiah Johnston makes some kind of a remark about Sean Ryan being CIA. And Sean Ryan's like, I'm not CIA. I mean, he I mean, it's very quick and very, and I think Doth, you know, it's the old saying, uh, Doth protests too much. Uh, you know, you doth so so I was like, wow, man, he really snapped back at that, which is what we've people have been saying about him for a long time. What I'm getting at here is there's this reoccurring theme with people who rise up out of nowhere in popularity across media. Uh, I'm sorry, especially social media, like podcasts or whatever. Um, I mean, you could argue even Mr. Joe Rogan and uh and Sean Ryan himself, and even this uh Jeremiah Johnson. I, I mean, maybe he's been around for a long time, but he's new to me. Um uh I don't want to pick on him because you know these guys are Bible scholars, they know more than me. I don't want to have a debate with them. I'm not saying that, but Wesley Huff, and they they rise up and everybody's talking about it and buzzing about it. But then I pick up on these little tiny clues that they are 98% truth, 2% compute confusion and or falsities. And this towards the uh the hour and I think it's our and 15 minute mark of this three-hour-long Sean Ryan episode, um, Jeremiah Johnston goes off on the Nephilim, but he never quotes what it says in Genesis 6. He never he talks a lot about Enoch, but he doesn't talk about how it applies and how it has benefits to understanding Genesis 6. He goes on to say that uh uh Goliath was definitely definitely Goliath was not a Nephilim.

SPEAKER_09 36:59

That's exactly what he was.

SPEAKER_05 37:00

Well, and the funny thing about that is he says that you know, we got we found some new scripture that indicates that Goliath was only six foot eight or something like that. Well, here's a problem with that in my mind. Here's a guy that's talking about the Shroud of Turin, and the Shroud of Turin indicates that Jesus was about six foot tall. So you're telling me that they were they were all freaked out and making note of this giant who was only eight to eight inches taller than Jesus was in his day. I mean, I maybe I'm all wet here. Nelly feel free to correct me wherever I'm wrong. But my thing, I just like, wait a minute, is if if if Sean Ryan's a CIA op, possibly, I'm not saying he is, just for entertainment purposes only, is this Jeremiah Johnston as an op where he's they're gonna give us some real data on the shroud and then they're gonna follow it up by squashing the key to, I mean, for people like us who love this Nephilim topic, it is the key to understanding not only the Old Testament, it's the key to understanding what's to come, because Jesus said in Matthew 24, um, as it was in the days of Noah, so will be coming at the coming of the Son of Man. So we've got uh genetic manipulation of humans, animals, and plant life. I mean, all this stuff. I mean, you look at the ancient pantheon of God's Enoch is is uh is is a key to understanding a lot that's very confusing in the Old Testament. And here's a guy getting up there, he's got this huge platform, and he's like, I'm sick and tired of people bringing up this Enoch nonsense. It's a total hogwash. And he doesn't quote it, he doesn't tell us that what anything that it says in there that would be interesting to listeners. He doesn't quote Genesis six. Sean Ryan, it shocks me at how little he knows about the Bible. He's got this huge platform, he's got a guy on a show talking about um you know the Shroud of Turin, and he's saying things like, What's manna? What's this? I've never read it. What does it say? He says, What does it say in Genesis six? It's like, hey, Sean Ryan, you're this big shot with this big format. You think you just pick up your phone one day and go to Google and go, Genesis six, what's the hype, and just read up on it. You've never read it. I'm I'm sorry, something is is is making my spider senses tingle that we're we're being fed garbage on a daily basis. Everybody that they've voiced on us to to get excited about ends up uh what's the word I'm looking for? Betraying us by being perpetrators of falsehoods, of murkiness, lies, and confusion. I don't know. Could you guys correct me if you want? That's that's my lead-in to these these uh this segment. What do you guys think of that? Did I ruin anything?

SPEAKER_08 39:18

Nellie, go ahead. Uh yeah, I'd like to chime in. So a few things. Uh first thing I want to highlight is um no no believer on this side of heaven is gonna have perfect theology. And and when we're we're not even all as as as uh as brothers and sisters in the body of Christ, we're not always gonna agree on every single theological point, uh, which is why I'm not threatened by multiple denominations within the body of Christ. One of my favorite quotes, and I don't recall where it originated from, but uh the the quote went, unity does not mean uniformity. And I and I and I love that. And when we insist upon uniformity on secondary matters, it can get us into trouble. It can cause unnecessary divisions and things like that. So um well, just kind of a disclaimer before going in, is like, do I think Wes Huff is a brother and this Johnston guy is a brother? Uh yeah, I'd like to think so. I'd like to love believes all things, right? 1 Corinthians 13. I want to be charitable in how I view them before I begin to criticize their ideas and not the men, because I don't know the men. I can't find out about the men, but I I can look at their ideas and I can I can deal with their ideas, right? And no theologian out there uh has perfect theology, and none of us is going to agree with another believer a hundred percent on on anything. Because even when when Jesse was talking about um how it had never rained prior to the flood, I would agree with him as a young earth creationist, but those that have a old earth chronology, um, they would disagree with that statement, right? But they could still be a Christian, like like uh John John Lennox is a brilliant man of God. I wouldn't question that man's salvation uh uh uh in a in a second. I mean, I've listened to him speak for hours. He's just brilliant, brilliant apologist, brilliant mathematician, loves Jesus and has taken Jesus into the belly of the academic beast, but he thinks the the earth is old. I don't think it's that old. Uh, but but but I love him and he and he loves me. And now we don't know each other, but but in Christ there's this there's this love. So I just wanted to preface any any critique I offer of of Johnston, because I I did have a lot of problems with Johnston's uh uh what he said about the the shroud was was was great, but then you get to the the Nephilim thing, and his his approach is not unique. Uh it's it's been around Calvin popularized, well, Augustine helped, but Calvin really popularized this this uh negative view of the supernatural interpretation of Genesis 6. His exact quote was was uh it was abundantly refuted by its own absurdity. That's a fancy, smart way of saying, I think it's silly, so it can't be true. And when you listen to Johnston in that interview with Sean Ryan, that's how he approached it too. I I think he even called it like a comic book theology or something like that. He was just so condescending. And and I want I I want to be a little more charitable than I think he was towards us and towards those of us that that have a supernatural interpretation. It's funny how you you're you're you're uh item of the day. Uh yeah. On the unseen realm. This is actually the expanded version, so it's even better. It's got it, it is it came out uh in the last few months. Yeah, hardcover, but then it also has a lot of additional notes that weren't in the original. Nice. And for those that might be a little intimidated by the unseen realm, there is a uh a book called Supernatural by Dr. Heiser as well. And it's the same content, but it is even more entry-level for those that might be a little intimidated. But um, so I wanted to uh uh, if I may, start to uh attack some of the things that um that Johnston says when he begins to just say, oh, that that silly Nephilim business, that Genesis 6 stuff that everyone is obsessed with. Uh unless you guys want to chime in with something before, because I I had some, I I've been listening to it and I have put some of my thoughts out so I wouldn't forget any of them. But um, you guys want to chime in before I get to any of those points?

SPEAKER_05 43:20

Well, I just want to say thank you for for reeling me in because I was I was letting my emotions kind of get the best of me, and I hope I didn't have a too dark of a tone, but I was just I felt so gaslit by what he was saying, it kind of put me in a defensive mode. So thank you for your your calming uh tone that is more Christ-like than what I have. So I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_08 43:39

Thank you. That's good. It's only because I've been crushed so much, you're fine.

SPEAKER_09 43:45

So so the uh you guys both have uh researched more of it than I have. The only bits that I've researched is you know the the prep for the show. Um so I was kind of relying, leaning on you both to uh walk us, guide us through this. Now we're gonna start.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

at like you said out guest about an hour uh hour forty six or hour forty seven uh is where we're starting this at okay because this is where he gets into what you wanted to talk about I believe and we can bounce around um you said there's about a 20 minute seven might what's that yeah that hour 47 might be where he where they talk about the CIA for a second yes just FYI yes it is that's that's that's that's that's where we're starting it's it's a short exchange all right that's we're gonna start so if you guys want to talk whatever I can pause it and we can go and uh we'll have fun with this whole thing all the way through so um like I said I've only listened to little bits here and there and so uh we're all gonna learn together and have a great time all right you guys ready let's uh let's let's get into this here so we'll switch over to this screen and there he is that is Jeremiah Johnson this is episode 293 over there on the um the CIA's website I mean Sean Ryan show all right all right here we go remember Jesus could exercise demons even over long distance he could heal people over long distance and so what's fascinating about this remember Luke 722 talk about someone who needed proof this is very important again we cannot read the new the new testament with western 21st century eyes we have to this is what you and I what I'm trying to do is take you on a journey we're doing experiential archaeology right now I want you to experience the context the CIA method by the way of of Bible reading boy can I give you the CIA method of Bible reading since you're CIA context and I'm not CIA don't don't listen we talked about him being CIA a long time ago look at his past I mean it's not hidden I don't know what he's trying to say maybe he's not current CIA but he's got connections in there I've heard I've heard it said once you are you always are so I don't know if it's I I was just about to say the same thing once a spook always a spook right yeah and I I just want to know how he jumped on so quick how how did his show jump off so fast just out of nowhere out of nowhere yep come on now all right let's keep going because this is not a CIA thing.

SPEAKER_09 46:14

Start spreading that around I'm kidding with you.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

So CIA method of Bible study this is so helpful this is how you always read the Bible context interpretation application. What's the context? Get me in the world of Jesus what's the then I'll know the interpretation so then I can apply it to my life that's what you should ask yourself every time you read the Bible. So we're doing context right now Luke 72 Josephus tells us that John the Baptist is being held in prison at Makiris the Bible doesn't tell us that Josephus the first century historian does remember John the Baptist was the forerunner who literally said baptized Jesus and said that's the Lamb of uh just just a note here a mention uh on this angle of of Jeremiah in the background what do you guys see?

SPEAKER_08 47:03

A lot of booze spirits oh boom I wasn't you got that yeah and and Sean Ryan is I mean he's a guy that comes comes in and out of of of I don't want to say comes in and out of the faith. I don't listen to him enough to know but I I I see him through reels and through clips. So I've heard him say some really really great things and then I've heard him say some really ignorant things or I've heard him say some really profound things and then I'll turn around and say some really profane things. So um yeah I I don't know much about him but it is it's funny the whole you know getting spooked by the the CIA thing. But uh it is it is interesting how this guy who I you knew nothing about him one minute and then the next he's got one of the biggest podcasts in the country. It I not that you're not an interesting guy but you're you're the the show is not really that compelling it's really it's like how do you suddenly have access to all these really important people you know these it it does give uh it's giving industry plant kind of thing you know um and it's funny uh that Johnston is talking about you know his CIA method and context is is is so important. And what's so funny is I know we're not to the Nephilim part yet, but one of the things that annoyed me the most about him is if he were applying his own method he already would have to shut up because the the context you he dismisses Enoch as comic book theology but the apostles quote Enoch they quote first Enoch in Jude and Peter it is quoted it is referenced and and so our our apostles didn't think that it was comic book theology right but he can speak so dismissively of it within it informed their way of thinking so for him to that was their context right and and so if we're trying to get the the context of the people of the time as he's claiming then then yeah we we need to do that. And when we're talking about Genesis six Dr. Heiser always used to say guess what first century Judea is not the context of Genesis six so even if everyone in first century Judea was saying that it's not supernatural and it's all naturalistic well but is that how Moses understood it when he was writing it is that how the the the the the ancient world thought about it for thousands of years before no we have to come context means the context of the ones that were originally receiving the message and the one who was originally writing it. So yeah uh sorry anyways I I I I get fired up listening to you no I'm glad you brought that up and Jesse so the rest of this is more about um more akin to the shroud okay the 215 mark is where he starts to go clown town on uh Nephilim okay 215 now can I ask you guys a question before we we we we uh so with the shroud I I I I um I used to be really fascinated with it when I was a babe in Christ right and and uh at the time there wasn't as much study available and and uh so so what are what are your guys' thoughts are you still fascinated by the shroud are you still convinced of of the shroud both of you oh yeah there's uh what's that documentary sent me just a couple weeks ago I'll guess that was the best one I've ever seen I can't remember the name of it but it was a good one we have it somewhere yeah it was like yeah it was like a BBC one it was actually quite uh intellectually approached like you're watching Nova um but so so Nelly just a little precursor I grew I'm was born in 71 and in the earth in the 80s uh the shroud was a hot thing for a minute I remember I had it in my Bible as a as a as a pubescent I had a Shroud of tour end bookmark um and then uh by the by the time I was a teenager in getting into punk rock and falling away from the faith uh the the mainstream new media announced that it was a medieval forgery and I was just like and it just added to kind of my questioning mode of being a teenager.

SPEAKER_05 50:52

And it was cast aside in my thinking up until I don't know how long ago, but a few years ago, maybe before COVID or something, I saw some documentaries on it and it blew my mind at how the how botched the uh the attempt was to discredit it. And they cannot explain how it was made. When I was a kid they were there were there were theories like they they took these spices and seasonings that they would put on a dead body and then they tried to mold it onto the face and then they tried to get a uh the the spices to make a uh an imprint of the I mean they tried everything they possibly could to say this is how it was done. They just and then now they're just at this point of this the stage of the game that we're in, they're admitting we don't know how this was done. This is this is like it's like a radioactive burst of light. Pow you know and and it was burned in there. The there's pollen there's uh that are from the Middle East that that blooms in the spring at the time of the resurrection. I mean it is crazy the details I I mean of course do I know no but I I tend to be a pretty avid supporter and believer in the shroud I think it's it's fascinating. Like Jeremiah Johnson says even though I'm not Catholic I'm not deterred by it being a Catholic relic. I think it's got validity across uh across in and it's not that it it has I need that as proof of my faith. I don't if it was a fake I would still have my faith it's just fun to say look at this possible document of a of a supernatural event that we can't you know we can't even comprehend and it's with and it's lasted all these ages and it's just it's fascinating to me.

SPEAKER_08 52:16

Sorry I'm rambling but that's my take on it Nelly I I'm a pretty big fan no you're good yeah no you're good I I because I I I I was curious just because again I hadn't looked at it in a while and I know a lot of people have been talking about it because there was that interview and then there's been a handful of other people kind of within some of the spheres that I travel with the paranormal topics that that covered it. And and so yeah it's something that uh my my patrons uh have have asked that I do an episode on so this as I was going through the Sean Ryan material with with Dr. Johnston uh it was that I will say was incredibly edifying like for somebody who has dedicated so much of his time and talent and treasure to say hey this physical thing something supernatural happened to this physical thing that we get to see um I'm like amen yeah like this I'm especially the the amount of energy that would have been required to create the image on the cloth like that we don't have anything that could do that. It's just it not in the the the the time required and again the output in such a small radius. So I was like man that's incredible but then for him to go from there and switch over and speak so condescendingly of the other super it's like the shroud has been an entry point for many people to investigating the claims of scripture and stuff like that. And I'm like well guess what buddy Genesis 6 has been an entry point for a lot of people that I know too. And as Jesse always says they shared like that's one of the things that brought him back was was reigniting that supernatural view of of the Bible because it is a supernatural book. And um so so yeah it's just manston he it's like you come so close to glory my guy and then you just you just you just dropped it.

SPEAKER_05 54:01

I was so disappointed when he when he went off on this tangent that I that's why I kind of I tried wanted to rally you Nelly to get on again even though you were just on recently I was like I gotta get I want Nelly's take on this because I know you're very well researched into the Nephilim and I knew that you would see probably more than what I was seeing in his his willful negligence of this topic or uh or it's beyond it's it's irresponsible almost it's like if it'd be different if he said hey listen this is not my expertise I'm not really well researched on that some people believe it some people don't there's a theological debate on it you could say it a lot of different ways but he just straight up clowns it and it's um yeah it set me off. It's intellectually dishonest.

SPEAKER_09 54:38

Yeah yes yeah beneath his IQ it seems like you know um I we did that Easter episode just a few weeks ago and that's where we talked about the shout of uh shroud of Turin and I have I'll I'll be looking because I still have that link that you sent me outcast to it and when I find it I'll I'll post it I'll post it give it to Passionelli before you do your episode Nelly you might want to take a look and watch us it's a YouTube uh great channel it's it's really good uh it's about what 40 50 minutes long something like that it's really good and we could probably drop it into our Discord once we get uh get a hold of it again but all right so do you want me to skip outcast over to uh 215 or should we roll from here?

SPEAKER_02 55:19

I think so I think that there's enough in 215 that'll keep us entertained yes all right sorry so sorry so you're saying two two hour and 15 minute mark is that is that close enough actually two six yeah two sixteen or so he's when he starts to really go off on the Nephilim but you're gonna hear Sean Ryan go what's the you know they they start talking about the book uh the Ethiopian Bible oh all right which is even another topic of conversation that we can talk about too yeah all right so here we go with this is uh just uh two two fifteen fifty five here we go of Jesus and when I'm doing historeo when I'm doing histro historiography I'm looking for early eyewitness testimony not certainty I'm looking for probability you just brought up the Ethiopian Bible I'm gonna give this back to you okay I've got it can I show you one thing Sean this is so cool all right let me just see here every time a book begins oh this is so cool it has a start with the color yeah there's the crazy Vatican stamp on every page yeah it is on every I mean literally we we know it's at the Vatican thank you we we understand yeah it's just amazing marketing and we have these colophons on here um they one of the really fascinating things is called the Nomina sacra these are called sacred names um you'll often see the first letter and the last letter of Iesus or Christos um and it's like an abbreviation and they would only put it for like me it would be like J and H, not Jeremiah my first letter last letter of my name with a line over and that's a gnomona sacra or gnomum sacrum in singular that was a sacred name so they wouldn't write it all the way out just out of deference for the Spirit God Jesus Christ Curios the Lord and that's how we know oh they're talking about Jesus here. Isn't that cool? So there's a whole scribal tradition that goes along with this beautiful text and so you know I'm I'm so glad that we're actually going to have this on display over Easter at Prestonwood and you can see there's even holes I don't know if you noticed that where I know I don't know how we don't know how it got there but it did.

SPEAKER_09 57:36

Yeah just absolutely amazing as he's looking as he's looking for this um music lover says did you guys hear about the Vatican installing Islamic prayer rugs today I haven't no I have not looked at that yet but um look at how surprised I am oh my gosh it's my pleasure thank you for letting me show the world this so this is Codex Vaticanus B.

SPEAKER_02 58:05

People need to know um how special our scriptures are that people bled and died so we could have the Bibles. So you might want to bring it to church with you.

SPEAKER_04 58:15

You might want to open it once in a while it's amazing if you read the Bible four days a week it radically changes your life I can't remember what I was watching but it just it was um or maybe it was at you know what I think it was at church and I can't remember exactly what the what he was saying but there he was talking about um like I I think it was like percentage of uh like depression maybe or something and and he he had broken down words if you read it once a week. Yes that's accurate you know this if you read it twice a week and times a week was the key was the key number.

SPEAKER_02 58:52

That's right. And it only takes 70 hours to read the whole Bible just so you know it's taken me a lot longer than that. It's all right though no shame again like reading it you can read the whole thing in 70 hours. And I remember the first reading it's not the problem for me. It's comprehending what is being said so you just need to have me back more often I'll guide you by the hand. All right I will make that happen.

SPEAKER_04 59:18

But I wanted to Don't let him guide you through the Ethiopian Bible. I've heard about it. Yeah it sounds like there's maybe some conspiracies around it or something. What what is it? What's what's what makes that so special?

SPEAKER_02 59:32

What why do people why are so why is there so much interest in that I don't know why to be honest with you um but I can share some speculative ideas. Those of us that know that study scripture tradition know that there are unique and interesting expressions of Christianity all over the world. The Ethiopic and Coptic Christians which are so similar and even Syriac Christians have unique traditions to their Old Testament canon. When we talk about the Bible we're talking about a library Sean and we're talking about a very carefully chosen library but we're also talking about even a canon within a canon. Let me give you a couple of examples and if you go to Bethlehem to the Church of the Nativity many people miss this. And if you go downstairs there's a little grotto and that is where Jerome in the late fourth century translates what becomes the Bible of 1000 years. It's called the Latin Vulgate who knows like the manuscripts he would have had uh in the in the 300s to work from but he tried the the lingua franca became Latin it was Romanized. And he is going back and forth with the Pope because there are these books called the Apocrypha that the Pope really wants included and they were important windows I want to be very clear into second 300 years, second century BC to 100 AD, what we call the intertestamental period right up to the age of the New Testament. They were interesting windows into that time period but they're not historical by any means. I want to make that very clear um there was a very interesting Jewish mystical tradition and that's where we get Jubilees and Tobit and Enoch the book of Enoch. And so Jerome is going back and forth with the Pope and finally they compromise and he includes the Apocrypha as an appendix in the Latin completed Bible. A lot of people you might not be aware the original King James Version that we all love from 1611 actually includes the books of the Apocrypha it's 11 to 13 depending on how you count them. So it's a library so that's context okay so the Ethiopian tradition is interesting because they include 1 Enoch which is 108 chapters the first 37 of which are called the Book of Watchers. And it gets really into some very speculative ideas about the Nephilim which is this interesting race mentioned in Genesis 6, which by the way those first few verses and you can quote me on this in Genesis 6 is the weirdest part of the Bible. We do not have that much information of course in Hebrew if you know your Hebrew Nefal is the verb that means uh fallen.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:34

So that's where we get this idea of maybe they're just can you stop there just maybe they're just angelic being stop please yep it'd be it'd be easier to to address some of the things that he says little by little so it's it's a little less overwhelming for those that are joining us. So this is one of the first areas where this argument begins to fall apart. One of my favorite books on this was written by uh Dr. Tim Chafey it's called Fallen and uh he did his doctoral work on on this exact thing on on the Nephilim on Genesis six just those four or five verses that are some of the most contested um and even that specific Hebrew verb he he says well everyone knows that Nefal just means uh you know the those who fall right and and that's thanks to to Calvin that that we we come to that conclusion. But um even though Calvin popularized it he was a you know he was well meaning and everyone that has quoted that sense even some who believe in the supernatural interpretation will say oh well yeah nefal means fallen fallen angels duh right and it's like well no actually let's talk about the verb nefal uh and I have uh some of the notes from when I initially did this in my very first two episodes of the show about a year and a half ago um it in in Hebrew when you turn a verb into a participle there are uh predictable patterns and uh if you wanted to take nefal uh and again Dr. Chafey goes into this and he's way better at explaining it than I am but this is my understanding uh if you wanted to take the verb nefal and make it an active participle those who fall you would get nophilim not nephelim you would get nophilim okay the vowels the vowels are different and and nophilim actually appears in the Bible in Ezekiel 32 referring to slain warriors that go down to Sheol now if you wanted a passive participle those who have fallen you would get nefulim a word that doesn't appear in the Bible at all and neither of those attempts produces the word that we have Nephilim. The derivation doesn't work grammatically and he goes into far greater detail on on why it doesn't work and he even quotes renowned Hebrew scholar Dr. Michael Heiser that was his bread and butter right so what does the word actually mean Nephilim doesn't mean fallen ones it means giants Nephilim means giants the singular noun is naphil meaning giant and you can see that in the the sister Semitic language Aramaic Neph uh uh naphila means giant as well and and and when Johnston's own you know go learn Greek bro his advice kind of comes back at him because when the Hebrew Bible was being translated into Greek which we call the Septuagint which by the way is older than Jerome's Latin Vulgate by about 700 years uh those scholars who were fluent in both Hebrew and in Greek whenever they got to the word Nephilim and it shows up twice when they got to Nephilim in Genesis 6 they translated it Gigantes and then when they got to that same word in Numbers 13 it was translated gigantos. They weren't confused about what that word meant. There's There's no, oh, it means those who fall or those who have fallen. No. Uh, the way they handled it back second, you know, third century BC, there, no, they said it means giants. And um so so his whole, oh, well, no, the only reason we think this way is because of the Enochic literature and and the apocryphal literature. And it's like, no, actually, we can just look at Genesis 6 and Numbers by itself and see, like, there is a very unique word here that's being used. And from there, we can say, well, how has it been dealt with historically? Well, the scholars that wrote the Septuagint treated it as not fallen ones, they treated it as gigantes and gigantas, giants, right? And that's that's way older than Calvin. It's way older than Jerome, and that's how that word was being thought of. So his his what C. S. Lewis called it chronological snobbery. So Johnston uh is is dealing with chronological snobbery. He's like, well, you know, those old, those, those ancient people, they didn't know any better, so they were wrong about this. And it's like, no, that's that's not that's not the case, right? So they always translated it giants because that's what it means. Uh, this whole fallen ones translation has been used for centuries to quietly drain the supernatural meaning away from Genesis 6. And uh if Nephilim just means fallen one, suddenly you've got wiggle room to make the whole passage just about morally compromised human beings or human men rather than angelic beings producing hybrid offspring, which which we know that's what we're dealing with, right? Because the other Hebrew part, like forget Enoch, we haven't even touched Enoch, right? It says that the Benecha Elohim cohabitated, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men and desired them and took for themselves wives, right? That's what it says. And Benecha Elohim, sons of God, every time it's used in the Old Testament, it is always used to speak of supernatural beings. It's never used of human beings. Ever, not one time is that phraseology used to refer to human beings. And Job is when it's most revealing, right? Because it says that, you know, that Yahweh, when he's gathering the divine counsel, he he's gathering together the what? The Benecha Elohim, the sons of God. Well, that's that's happening up there. That's that's not down here. So so nowhere is it clearer that sons of God are supernatural entities that cohabitated with human women, and they say, well, that's too weird to be true. That's that's too weird. And it's like, well, uh actually, why does every culture then have this story? Why does every culture tell this story? The terminology may change from culture to culture, from continent to continent, language to language, but uh it's interesting how every one of them has you know, Nephilim or demigods of some kind where where the supernatural and human cohabitated and the these uh insane offspring come as a result of this union. And and and again, this this is a tale as old as time, you know, and and uh I all of these cultures on every continent have this myth. And I think the Bible gives us what Lewis would call the true myth. Not that I'm saying it's fictional, but like the true story that explains like, hey, this is what really happened. It did happen. Here is how. And even though the the language used, the Hebrew Asher, uh it says that, you know, whenever it says when the sons of God laid with the daughters of men, this was the outcome, right? The Nephilim. But that that word asher in Hebrew can mean uh whenever is is what Dr. Chafe suggests in his work, is what it's most likely meaning. So whenever the sons of God laid with the daughters of men, this was what happened. What does that imply? Well, it implies that it happened again, which is how we know that Goliath was in fact the result of another incursion of some kind. Um, and and you had mentioned uh uh earlier in the in the broadcast that uh it these things are gonna happen again. So it will be like like the days of Noah. So it has happened again post-flood. It did happen. Uh, and and I'm I know I'm going on too long because we still got clips that uh I said oh I told you I got a little too excited and I just started running. But um there are a few other things that he says that that I'll save uh my points till we get to those parts. So um thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:31

I'll shut up for a second.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:33

It's it's good, dude. No, this is this is exactly why we wanted you on. I I don't think I could have ever repeated any of that, even close to what you explained about the the the vernacular and the uh you know of of because he threw me off. He was saying the Nephilim means the fallen. And I'm like, wait a minute, I I know that it means giant in, you know, and you you you gave us the the uh the the backdrop to to give understand how that it means giant. It just it's astounding to me that he I don't know. I could I lost my train of thought, but I'll have more thoughts as we go because this is so good. But Nelly, I'm so glad you decided to come on because this is exactly the type of breakdown that we needed because this guy was making me bonkers when I was listening to it.

SPEAKER_09 1:11:10

You know, yeah, and just to throw more more stuff that Nelly is gonna know about uh onto this. Remember, there's so much more uh uh scripture talking about um that we were uh it felt like uh grasshoppers, uh knee high. Uh that's uh the anacheme. Yep, yeah, numbers numbers 1313. Yep. And then the other one talking about uh uh they were X amount of cubits high, which you know the cubits you guys from back then the it goes from here to here, or L's. L's would be like the lengths of your arm. So, you know, there's so many passages in the Bible that talk about these things being big. Okay. Uh and I'm glad you're you're nailing this stuff here. Um Amber Grace, Amber Dawn, she says, uh, Pastor Nelly is so humble and comes with so much knowledge. I love his stories on his channel. God bless. All right, let's uh thank you. Uh Corinne Zimmerens, she's having a hard time outcast in the in the uh Nelly with uh Catholic Church doing all these things. Um as I am, she's Catholic, but without a church currently. Um any advice for her? Somebody in her position?

SPEAKER_08 1:12:22

Woof, that's tough. I I mean uh with with the the the Catholic Church has been flirting with ecumenism for for decades now, uh and kind of a merging of all of the faiths. And uh it is it is really scary. I I mean uh I I would if I were a Catholic, I would certainly be very alarmed. Um and it it usually is the popes that are the ones initiating this this this these ecumenical movements, this desire to want to all hold hands and sing kumbaya as though we all worship the same God, and we most certainly do not. Um I've I I I've been very vocal in the past that like Muslims, of course, don't worship the same God as as Christians. And and what one of the things that I've realized as I've studied the the the Talmud in the last few months is is after their rejection of Christ in the first century, the Jews have not worshiped the same God as as us in a long time either. You know, so so um yeah, trying to hold hands and sing kumbaya, uh it's it's uh it's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen, and trying to make it happen uh only leads to to trouble, to difficulty. If if it were me, I I mean I I would it sometimes what I have in in the Catholics that listen to my show uh and and that I that I that I connect with, um they have uh I admire them because they kind of have a healthy relationship with the Catholic Church. They're able to separate the the things they're like, well, I love my my denomination, I love my church, but I recognize that uh the Pope is wrong on X, Y, and Z. Because it used to be any Catholic saying the Pope was wrong, well, that was that was heresy, right? That was sacrilege. Uh and and there are a growing number of Catholics that are saying, hmm, I don't agree with him on this and this and this point. Uh and you know, uh I uh that does open up some doors to some difficulties, right? Because if you are having a growing number of issues with your denomination, then you kind of need to deal with that. That could lead to to some harder questions needing to be asked and perhaps answered. But um uh, you know, many would say don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. And I I I know many people that I love and admire that I've connected with through the show that say, man, I I love the Catholic Church, but I hate the direction it's going. And I could equal I could easily say the same thing after Chuck Smith died. He was the founder of Calvary Chapel. After he died, uh bunch of bad stuff started happening within the movement. And um, it's like, yeah, I love, I love my denomination. I hate what it's become since the uh since you know Chuck Smith went to go be with Jesus, but here we are. So that's my my my thought on it is try to find a uh find a church uh you know that is gonna continue to stay true to the word of God, and that's the most important thing no matter what your denomination is.

SPEAKER_09 1:15:06

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:08

Uh I'd like to add, and and Nelly, correct me anywhere you you're you see a spot to be corrected, but um it is arguably has been argued that we are in the Laodicean church age, which is if you look at Revelation, the Laodicean church was lukewarm and it would it would be spit out by God or by Jesus, would spit it out because you want a cold drink on a hot day and a hot drink on a cold day. And it and to me it has become painfully obvious that most, a vast majority of churches have fallen into the Laodicean mindset because it's about uh it's about butts in the seats and money in the plate. I don't want to just der deride it down to the level of being just about money, but at the end of the day, it kind of is about money because they got a big they got a big facility to run, they got a staff, they've got all kinds of things going on, and it takes the focus off of the main thing, which is the main thing is relationship. Um so what we're also seeing here too, and correct me if I'm wrong, Nelly, but in the uh what's his name? Um Nimrod of the B the you know who built the Tower of Babel. Nimrod wanted a one world religion, one world currency, one world government, one world leader. And ironically, it's exactly what the World Economic Forum wants in their uh UN Agenda 2030 plan. And ironically, it's what the the Catholic Church is falling into with this action. It is, if you if you look very clearly, this is it we are in the end of age, and we are seeing the signs of that Laodicean church. It is trying to be everything to everyone. That's why the Nephilim and other controversial topics are not being brought up by your pastor. No offense. Your pastor might be a great guy with a great heart. I'm not dissing him, but they it's too controversial. You don't want to scare anybody away with your wacky stuff. So they they avoid real doctrine that really connects the dots for people and makes them feel as though they are being that it for me, anyways. I I'm looking at this going, holy cow, now I understand where the Greek gods come from and the Egyptian gods come from and the pantheon of gods of all the other religions, the Vikings. It's like it all started coming into focus. And I was like, oh, the Bible isn't baloney, it isn't just a bunch of old stories. This is good, this has context and everything else. Yep. But these pastors don't want to get into the weird stuff, so they go lukewarm. And I think that this action by the Catholic Church is a lukewarm step. It's it's one thing you can do to be all things to all people instead of standing in the in the firm truth of God. And and we can't be surprised as we see this unfold, as John the Revelator predicted it would be. And the ironically, the World Economic Forum and everybody else is pushing towards these same Nimrod goals. Look at, I mean, it's just it's on repeat. And and so what I'm gonna say here too, and and and I don't want to diss on the Catholic Church because I have friends who are Catholics and they're devout, and and I I'm not I don't I'm I'm not in the mood to do that right now. I've made some people mad in the past. But what I do want to say is this though I really want to ask, you really need to ask yourself, you can still continue to practice practice Catholicism, you can still go to your mega church, but really in your in your home time, work on your relationship. That's that's the key. Religions have a tendency to make you feel like it's performative. If the pastor asks you to to produce the play, you have to do it. It's not it's not like you're it's not like you're being called by God to go on the streets and do boots on the ground ministry, like Sister Varita, our friend, who who helps homeless women off the streets with their children. This is a play. There's you you notice I'm sorry, I'm all over the place, but you guys get my point.

SPEAKER_09 1:18:21

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:22

Focus on the focus on the relationship, and then what happens on the other end is that the these churches have a tendency to lead you towards religiosity and lukewarmness. And just make sure that your passion is on fire here, go there together with the body, but see it for what it is and don't fall into all of its trappings. With this, this is just a very tangible thing that we can see the Catholic Church doing. Um, but all other churches are just as guilty. I mean, how many rainbow churches do you see out there now? It's the same exact you know, same thing.

SPEAKER_09 1:18:49

Yeah, yeah, for sure. You know what uh what this yeah, what this podcast has done for me, Outcast, and you know, having guests on like you, Past Pastor Nelly, is that you know, even though yeah, I'm I'm Catholic too, but um I've been waking up to something uh and it's really hit me right here, like you were just saw talking about Outcast. Uh, I know that there's only one way to get into heaven, and it's not through a Pope, it's through Jesus. Amen.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:15

Amen.

SPEAKER_09 1:19:16

So that you know that that's a big consideration right there for anybody thinking about what the whole Catholicism is. You know, uh my grandparents, big time, heavy in the Catholicism, they're Catholics. Uh so all right, let's let's get going. Uh you guys anything anything more to add? We're gonna keep going with the uh pastor over here. All right, here we go. Jeremiah Johnstone.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:40

So Nephilim is the plural noun of Nefal in Hebrew. I don't know if that was ever explained to you from a word study. So that's where we get this idea of this sentient race that copulates with women to produce this hybrid race. We don't know anything about it besides the first five or six verses of Genesis. Perhaps, and again, we speculate. And so fast forward. Yeah, that's very strong, DC.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:10

Right. Uh, has he ever listened to even Gary Wayne? Gary and Gary Wayne would destroy this in two seconds. He would dismantle it like you just dismantle it, Nellie. Chuck Chuck Mistler.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:21

Yeah, he's a legend scholar. He's a legend too.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:24

Yeah, come on. Yeah, he was a legend too. Yeah, let's keep going. Okay, so what? I mean, are we 3,000 years later? Are we 6,000 years later? We're in 300 BC. We're in this unique milieu of Jewish mystical writing, and the book of Enoch begins to speculate for 37 chapters about who this race was, who these giants were.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:50

See, go ahead and pause it there real quick.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:52

This is where he does the bait and switch, right? This is where he does this subtle bait and switch because he he wants to uh uh take the the whole argument and throw it out uh out the window because he's gonna say the only reason we think this way, hi my love. Um my wife just walked in the door. So the the whole reason that they uh he says the whole reason they think this is because the book of Enoch that was written, you know, uh way, way afterwards, and that's where this idea came from. And it's like, no, actually, uh where the idea came to undo what the church or what the people of God had always believed is be because of some 16th or 17th century French theologian, again, John Calvin, who, you know, influenced heavily by Augustine, are are gonna throw out the supernatural worldview. And and so, so again, the bait and switch is oh, see this idea about you know demigods and supernatural mixing with the natural, it's like, see that, oh, we got that from Enoch and it came way later, you know, like 300 years after, and it's like, no, we just dealt with the actual text of Genesis 6, and we saw that that's not at all the case, that the the terminology is derived straight from the text and Enoch, which um I well, and not that he said it came 300 years after, but but he was saying that that oh these are recent ideas, they're not recent ideas, they weren't recent. Um, and and I I gotta I gotta stop interrupting so much, but go ahead and that's the moment where he switches it.

SPEAKER_09 1:22:22

Yeah, that's crazy that he's doing this stuff. I wonder if he knows he's doing it or if he's been told to do this.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:29

But it's well, no, it's all the intellectual types though. Uh it it's it's all the ones that uh I I mean when I I didn't have the opportunity to go through seminary. Uh I the the I I went to the school of hard knocks. A lot of the things that I've learned is is is self-taught. A lot of the things that I've learned is because I had to learn something and then unlearn it, right? I I I got saved in a Baptist church, and then the pendulum swung, and I was found myself in like a hyper Pentecostal-esque church. And, you know, the the pendulum kind of swung back towards where I'd like to think I'm at now, somewhere in the middle as a Calvary Chapel guy, as a Calvary Chapel pastor. Uh Jesus said, Those who worship me must worship me in spirit and in truth. Uh I I it's not that I think Calvary Chapel's perfect or anything, it has its flaws practically and theologically, but but um it's where I feel the most at home with this idea of worshiping in spirit and in truth. But these these intellectual types, and and and that's one of the reasons I loved Heiser so much, is because I it it felt like we finally had a guy in those ivory towers fighting for us to say, like, yeah, no, that this this is the view that makes the most sense of the most passages. It's because once you throw out the supernatural and you only want to uh interpret it this one way, you've now alienated all these other strange parts of the Bible that now make no sense whatsoever. When you get into the New Testament, especially when you get into Jude, when you get into the writings of the Apostle Peter, he is alluding to the book of Enoch. They're using Enochian language and imagery. So it's like this was not some obscure thing that was brought about by Jewish mystics. That's just not the case. It was a theological commentary that was wrapped in narrative, is the is is kind of the best way to look at it. It it was it was commentary, it let us know these were how ancient theologians were thinking about Genesis 6. And it's like, well, were they off? I don't know. Jude and Peter didn't think, didn't seem to think that they were that far off, you know. And so, um, so is it is it nefarious? I mean, from a kingdom of darkness perspective, Satan loves confusion, right? He he he loves he doesn't care what you believe as long as you're further from Jesus by the end of it, right? That's that's really what he's concerned with. He loves those that get lost in the supernatural weeds as much as he loves those that get lost in the materialistic weeds, right? He just wants to get you further from from from Jesus, and he'll he'll pull whatever thread he has to in order to do it, whatever your bent is. I've known some people go down the Nephilim road and and get lost and get totally distracted and derailed from the gospel, get derailed from that. Uh, as Outcast was saying, like relationship is so important, and that relationship is with the person of Jesus. And um, you can get pulled away by some of these things if not approached properly with with balance. And Heiser, man, he just he just did that so well and in in my opinion, and so many of the intellectual types like Johnston. And Johnston here, he's not even handling the material uh fairly. I mean, but but a lot of Heiser's skeptics, after Heiser died, all these jokers came out of the woodworks to attack all of his work and make all these big YouTube videos saying how you know some of them were going as far as calling him a heretic. And it's like you would have never said that while he was alive. But now that he can't defend himself, you feel comfortable because he was an intellectual giant and you couldn't have had a conversation with him. Heck, I couldn't have, probably, you know, but but especially like there were people that I loved and respected who who who he even had on some of his programs, people like Doreen Virtue, who love her to death. I mean, she had a past in the occult, and then she gets radically saved, but now she's she's in the the materialistic camp. She's a Christian, she loves Jesus, but all the supernatural stuff she just thinks is is is silly and it's a distraction. And you know, Johnst Johnston's one of those intellectual types, one of those, I don't know if he's reformed in his so soteriology, but but those that dive deeply into Calvin, Calvin was one of the guys that was like, oh, you know, it it's disproven by its own absurdity. Well, well, Calvin, you're not dealing with what the text actually says. You just said, well, it's so silly it can't be true. So um yeah, I don't know if it's nefarious in intent, but but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:51

Yeah, and you know, on Heiser, real quick too. The one thing that he I can't do it justice, of course, because of his intellect, but he uh perfectly explains how um ancient thinkers thought in the in the the view that they saw the world in. And what I'm getting at here is that, and I like to word it like this, uh Pastor Nelly, um the reason that Jude and Peter d pretty much directly quote from the book of Enoch is because that they were reading it themselves. It had value to their understanding of the Bible. It wasn't weird, it wasn't freaky, it wasn't a distraction. I mean, Peter and Jude, I mean, they're they're New Testament writers who loved Jesus Christ and believed in Jesus Christ and died for Jesus Christ, and yet they saw the value of Enoch. It wasn't considered well, we can't let's not talk about that. It's not it's not really focusing on Jesus. We need to just put that aside. No, they're quoting it. They're saying this is this will give you a knowing these books will give you a better understanding of the whole spiritual battle that we're in, where we've been and where we're going, just like all prophecy in the Bible, Old Testament to New Testament, Jesus fulfills everything that was promised in the Old Testament. And and this is a key to understanding that. I mean, the one thing that that Jeremiah people like Jeremiah Johnson is just Don't seem to understand is if you if you can't if you wanted to throw the the the Nephilim out, the concept of the Nephilim out, then you have to answer to why God was so genocidal in the Old Testament. Yep. The Horim, the Raphaim, the He the Hezekim, the Canaanites, the Amorites, the Zamzumin, and he says, wipe them out, kill them, every man, woman, and child, and don't even bring their animals back. What? If you don't have any context for that, you're gonna have an atheist that's gonna throw this in your face at some point and you're gonna go, don't have an answer. Right? So so what I'm starting to wonder is if there is conscious or subconscious that there's this energy out there that really wants to squash this story. They want this to go away, they want it to be discredited because it is the key to understanding what they're going to try to do next to us. Exactly. So burying it is behooves them. Sorry, we'll get back to the video to get that out.

SPEAKER_09 1:28:48

Yeah, no, that's perfect. Okay, so I like that because it it it is like you said, it is gonna squash what is cut what is to come and what we are going to see. And they want as many people as they uh fooled as they can have. Now, if you want to expand this a little bit further into uh you know our culture right now, look at all the work that Hollywood does when they portray these things in their Marvel and DC and you know, all these movies, it's all based on the same stuff right here. It's just corrupted information uh put back to us. So uh there is so much. And again, I just uh for some reason this guy here uh he gives me the uh the the my spidey senses are up, is what I'm saying with this guy right here. I'm uh on showing.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:32

Jesse, I just came. I just came up, I just came up with one. It's corrupted information for a godless generation. Boom.

SPEAKER_09 1:29:38

Perfect.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:39

I'm gonna coin that one.

SPEAKER_09 1:29:40

Yeah. Um, all right, let's let's let's let's keep it going.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:45

And it's really fun and interesting and maybe even perhaps edifying for certain groups, but it's not historical as far as helping us understand. What I would say is this very clearly. First Enoch specifically, which is in the Ethiopian Bible, from a historical perspective, from a scholarly perspective, and from an archaeological perspective, does nothing to help us understand Genesis six and the Nephilim at all. What what does it say in Genesis six?

SPEAKER_08 1:30:17

Pause it there.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_09 1:30:18

That the the essential That is crazy that he said that.

SPEAKER_08 1:30:22

Yeah, that particular statement is is one of the the worst things that that comes out of his mouth in in this entire interaction because he says it has no value whatsoever. And the the problem that I have with that is because the apostles read it, they quoted it, they dealt with the material. And for you to say that it has no historical or archaeological value or theological value, you're telling the apostles who walked, talked, ate, and breathed alongside of Jesus, who wrestled with this material, and again, who quoted it? Yeah, Enoch is not inspired. That's not what we're saying. I don't think it should have been included in the canon. I'm not one of those guys, but but it informed their thinking. And so when the Spirit of God comes upon these men, using their gifts, their abilities, their worldviews, their language, the Holy Spirit working through them affirmed certain elements of Enoch. It wasn't to say the whole thing was being signed off on. That's the danger, right? Because Paul quotes secular poets in his work. So if if we're not careful, are we saying that everything that those poets were uttering was was also divinely inspired? No, no, no, no. What what what the apostles I think would say if they could talk to us right now is that all truth is God's truth. So when a secular poet speaks truthfully, we can say, yeah, yeah, that resonates with something uh as a fellow image bearer, that resonates with something that ties back to the one whose image we were made in, right? There's something true about what you're saying that transcends uh uh this this life and what I can see, taste, touch, feel here, right? And so when they're quoting the Enochian literature, when they're quoting first Enoch, the spirit working through them is affirming some of those ideas that were included in that work are accurate. And I think we we just have to be careful, uh, you know, it's like, well, how much that we won't know until we get there. That's that's the messy part, right? Because it's like Enoch also starts to talk about, you know, the specific number of watchers and where they met and those kinds of things. And I tend to agree with a lot of that stuff because when you do study the archaeology and the history, you start to realize, like, oh dang, Mount Herman was important. It was the this 200 number is kind of important because we got about 200 massive craters around the planet. That it's like, wow, isn't that interesting? And you know, you you'd sent the the text before earlier today. You had mentioned uh that there's a certain building that has really powerful people that meet in it that happen to have 200 chairs. You know, it's like uh we know these met these numbers matter a lot to the folks that get lost in this stuff. So those that reject this supernatural view, I'm doing this series on on magic and you know, witches and things like that, not glorifying it, but rather exposing it because I'll talk about the occult and then I'll show you a way that secular society has adopted the occult and just use different words so you don't think that you're dealing with the supernatural anymore. They've deceived, they've deceived, you know. But then I did something on Paula White. I I did it before it was cool, by the way, because I was already working on this. Because everyone started talking about her after she, you know, said or did something else stupid uh concerning the president. But but um in any case, I was saying some of the things that she does in her ministry are more akin to occult practices than anything found in in church history or in the old testament. And and so um, yeah, sorry, I'm I'm all over the place too, because I do get I do get fired up listening to this guy being so dismissive of and so when he said there's no value in it whatsoever. I just had a uh I do a weekly Q ⁇ A with my church on Wednesdays, and man, I've I've covered all this stuff with them, and they they they they love it because they feel like you guys, because nobody else would ever talk to them about these things. And when I get to see their eyes light up when I can connect all these dots, Dr. Heiser used to say he was he wasn't he wasn't a smart guy. He says, I'm just a dot connector, I recognize these patterns and I and I lay them out for you from from history, from you know linguistics. Um, and so I love seeing that little light go on when they can say, Oh, now this makes sense. Now that makes sense, now this makes sense, and that and and so whether it's the Nephilim stuff or the divine counsel stuff that Heiser really got deep into, um, man, it's it has such explanatory power to help us understand the grand narrative of the Bible. And for this guy, man, this guy, and he Johnston, again, I want to be charitable. I I uh I do believe that his thinking is poisoned by academia. I see academia as the enemy. I don't see Johnston as an enemy. Not that the enemy can't use you know some of the things that he's saying, but I uh again, I'm just trying to be charitable, especially when he is so big on defending the shroud and and the awe that he expresses about Christ and urging people, man, read your Bible. It only takes 70 hours to read your Bible. So uh again, I don't want to throw everything that Johnston says out, you know, as a as an apologist, as a scholar, I I mean he's probably learned more than I have than I have uh forgotten, uh uh, or he's probably forgotten more than I've ever known. I mean, uh, but but going that academic path, you you tend to drink from wells that I think are poisonous. And I think you guys would agree with that, that, that as well.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:50

So you know, I just I want to add one thought before we move on to this next segment. Um he is he is so dismissive of Enoch, it is very it's very reminiscent of how he was at the very beginning of this segment when he dismisses the Ethiopian Bible. I like to say it like this. Nellie, correct me if I'm wrong about something because you know more than I do, but I like to look at it like the reason that those books are in the Ethiopian Bible is because the very earliest Christians, some who may have even seen and witnessed and were healed by Christ, brought those books with them when they escaped persecution to Ethiopia. And you're just gonna wave it off and go, yeah, there's not Sean, there's nothing to know about this Ethiopian Bible. It's just there's different little sec sections of the world that have their own little traditions and it doesn't really matter. He dismissed the same way he's dismissing Enoch, he dismisses the whole Ethiopian Bible. I think it, I think it's pretty distasteful, honestly, because I think the Ethiopian Bible on some level is fascinating. And I mean, even if you don't believe that those books are holy canon, they're included for a reason. What's the reason? Those earliest believers brought them with them. Why? Because they were just like Peter and Jude, they were studying those books. And this guy wants to go, eh, whatever. Don't there's nothing to the book of Enoch, and there's nothing to the Ethiopian Bible. Let's move on, Sean. This is silly. I mean, that's I I I think it's very disingenuous and strange of him to go out of his way to not answer these direct questions about these two books.

SPEAKER_08 1:37:14

It's how does that say I agree, and no, I agree, and I wanted to chime in in in defense of certain things uh with orthodoxy and with Catholicism. You know, I I as a Protestant used to be incredibly dismissive of the apocryphal literature. Yeah uh I used to sound like this guy too. So so um uh I'm I'm so grateful for again guys, guys like Heiser, because with with Enoch, I I didn't know enough about it to even shut it down. But I was kind of conditioned to see it negatively. Anything that came from, you know, the apocryphal texts, anything that came from that intertestamental period, uh, I was kind of trained as a Protestant to look negatively upon it when even if you don't believe it to be inspired, it has incredible historical value. And like you said, Alcast, there's there's uh there are people that felt it important enough to bring along to preserve. And if nothing else, even if you're like, well, it's not inspired, so it's not important, that's ridiculous. That's that's like saying all history doesn't matter because it wasn't inspired. No, history is what helps us to understand the inspired material. How can I understand the Old Testament? I need to study ancient history so I can understand the Old Testament. Because guess what? The world back then ain't the way that it is. Like we were saying earlier. Even if you want to understand, if you want to understand the Old Testament, you don't go to the first century in order to do that, because that's not the time that it was written. And you got to go back even further if you want to have an accurate understanding. Who was it being written to? How did they view the world? What was the world like that they lived in? And when you do that, I mean, this the stuff that we're talking about does have such powerful explanatory ability. Because when you're going through the Exodus account, um, when it says that God's not just judging the Egyptians, that's not what the text says. It says that he was judging the gods of Egypt, he was judging the Elohim of Egypt. And when when you when you lack the supernatural worldview and the divine council worldview, it's like, well, what does that mean? Oh, so so he's just talking trash about a bunch of fake beings. No, these were actual beings in rebellion, and he was judging them along. And then when you when you realize every single plague was attacking a different Egyptian deity, it just you know, it's it's it's so crazy and it's exciting and it it brings excitement to to to the Bible.

SPEAKER_09 1:39:38

So yep, I like it. Let's get back to it. Uh, we got it, we're gonna try to squeeze this into 15-20 minutes here. So let's let's see what we got back to uh Jeremiah Johnstone.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:49

That this race, this angelic race, may have created offspring with females that hastened the judgment of God. He says may have uh that we see right after that passage. We just don't know. That's the thing. We don't have to do CIA, context, interpretation, application. That's all we know. Which he does none of.

SPEAKER_09 1:40:17

It says in Genesis 6 that he came down and mated with the daughters of men and created these beings. Why is he not acknowledging that?

SPEAKER_08 1:40:25

Yeah, well, because it's it's not intellectually safe to do so. In the circles that he travels in, he he uh Dr. Heiser, he really helped blow the lid off of these things, right? And and and so, um, but a lot of academics ostracized him because of it, because they're snobs. They uh it's chronological snobbery. It's we're more modern, so we know better than ancient man. And it's like you talk about context and then you ignore the context that ancient man had as they were writing and interacting with with Yahweh, right? And so, yeah, it it is it's arrogance, but in order to, and that's another reason why I believe young earth creationism. We talked about that earlier in the show too. Young earth creationism, if if you believe in a young earth, you immediately get ostracized in certain circles, even within our domain here and dealing with kind of the fringe, you know, when when uh I I'm into the fringe, right? Uh that's the whole basis of my show, The Dancing Toaster, is dealing with the fringe. But I am even an odd man out as a young earth creationist because you guys you got guys like Timothy Alberino, love that guy to death. He he does all he does a lot of great work, he's a brilliant guy. I I love what he's doing, but he he he believes in an old earth and he is a big adherent to what's called the gap theory that tries to squeeze you know millions of years in between verse one and two of Genesis 1. And and you know, I I'm I I'm I don't want to sound like Johnston, so I'm not gonna talk too dismissively of the view, but but even Heiser, who who was a Hebrew scholar, uh did he he said there's not a lot of room for that uh in the text from a from from a Hebrew perspective, right? And so, anyways, it it is it is uh he's so dismissive and it it's so discouraging, but at the same time, I'm not surprised because that's what all these intellectual types do. And and it's it and I wish I wish I had a wall that you could see behind me that's just covered in accolades and pieces of paper that say this guy knows what he's talking about. I don't have that. The again, the only school I went to is a school of hard knocks. So I I've had to I I I I had to work my way through some things and up some things, but um, yeah, when you go through the system, there are certain things that are not allowed to be talked about, whoops, you get ostracized.

SPEAKER_09 1:42:48

Oh, for sure. You know, and I don't know. As far as uh, you know, what you're talking about, the the the wall of accolades behind you and the piece of paper. Nellie, that doesn't impress me. Uh it never has. I I I see those things as you've learned from the establishment, and that's all you're allowed to know and understand is what the establishment taught you. So that's that's where I'm at on that.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:15

All right, let's roll. It could be mythology, it could be true, it could be uh the way that humans raced into sin. That's one speculation. Like, how did we become such great sinners? Maybe through this race. But there's no connection between Goliath and the Nephilim. We know now we have a bruh.

SPEAKER_08 1:43:40

Yeah, that's that's that's that's what one of the things we gotta talk about for sure. Because um that's just ridiculous. So let's talk about that because I I I think that's that's one of the last points that he utters that we haven't addressed yet. Yeah, is is so let's let's deal with that, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:43:56

Um let me let me say first, let me say first that go for it.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:00

Is that is a new term I'm gonna come up with that is straight up nephilim derangement syndrome that would make you say something like that.

SPEAKER_09 1:44:07

Right. NDS. Sure. NDS.

SPEAKER_08 1:44:10

Yes, NDS, NDS for sure. So again, one of the main works that that I'm referencing when I talk about these things, if it's not Heiser's Unseen Realm, it's Dr. Tim Chafey uh fallen uh is is the name of the book. So we we know that Genesis 6 says the Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, whenever we talked about the the Hebrew Asher, whenever the sons of God came and the daughters of men. And so right there we see what's being said. The text is letting us know that these Nephilim, they they showed up, they caught, they helped lead to the flood because there's this this wickedness. And and uh for for those that say, well, no, man just got really bad, and that's why why God flooded the whole world. It's like, whoa, it had to be something incredibly severe for him to respond in such a way. And and I think that again, this interpretation of Genesis 6 helps us also uh it helps us to understand why the flood happened, what what what necessitated the flood. But as you pointed out, Jesse, earlier, with with um the the war in Canaan, the holy war in Canaan, when they get there and Joshua and Caleb are claiming the land, a bunch of people there are certain groups that are are deemed deemed for destruction, entire entire destruction, right? But it's not everywhere they go. It's only certain ones, and the certain ones just so happen to be the ones that would have had Nephilim clans, right? And so um the text is letting us know they will show up after the flood. They did. The same mechanism that produced them the first time around is is is is how they come later on. Angelic beings procreating with human women, it happened again. And and I I didn't come up with this term either, but but the multiple incursion theory that it happened before Genesis 6, it happened after, which is why the the grammar allows for it. Asher, whenever. When does it happen? Well, it happens whenever the sons of God, the Benecha Elohim, lay with the daughters of men. We're not reading into the text, we're not even building our theology on Enoch as he's accusing us of doing. The text is telling us what happened, and and Dr. Johnston, bless his little heart, that's what we say in the oh, bless his heart. He didn't he didn't go there at all. And and he claimed this this claim, there's no connection between Goliath and the Nephilim. Um makes no sense so confidently wrong, right? So so Numbers 13, 33, the spies come back from Scouting Canaan and they say, and I'm gonna read it directly. He says, There also we saw the Nephilim. The sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim, and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight. So who are the sons of Anak? They're the Anakim, explicitly identified as what? Nephilim. And and the Septuagint called them Gegantas, not fallen ones, giants. It's all very plain, it's historically established, it's textually established, and we haven't touched on Enoch. Now, but we can now he says, well, it has nothing to do with Goliath. Oh, shut up, it does. Follow the trail, because this is where it gets good, right? Deuteronomy 2 tells us about the Rephaim, tells us about the Emim, the Zamzumim. And every single time Moses wants to communicate how massive these clans were, he compares them to the Anakim. He says, every time he says they were as tall as the Anakim, they become the benchmark to Moses. What was the Anakim? Ah, well, numbers tells us the Anakim were Nephilim. They were Gigantas, they were giants, not fallen ones, giant ones. Deuteronomy 3 introduces us to the king of Bashan, King Og of Bashan. He's identified as a Rephaim, as tall as the Anakim. What is that? He was a giant. And we're told he was so big that his bed was made of iron that was 13 feet long. So this is a big bed. He's a big boy. And he's not just somebody's, you know, some say, well, no, he wasn't a giant. The only reason he had this bed was to show how important he was. And it's just like you're reading into the text. Yeah. That's the if anybody's reading into the text, it's you. So where does Goliath fit in before we run out of time? I gotta seal the deal here. Goliath comes from Gath. His brothers and his relatives that that David's mighty men fought against. They they they uh 2 Samuel 21, all those guys were from Gath. And what does Joshua 11, 22 tell us? After Joshua's conquest, the Anakim were completely driven out of Israel, except Joshua 11 says, only in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod did some remain. So Gath, where Goliath and his brothers are from, is the same city where Joshua explicitly couldn't get the job done. So the remnant of Anakim, these Nephilim descendants, meaning giants, is exactly where Goliath came from 400 years later. Now, you can get into certain biological discussions and talk about is he a pureblood? Is he three-quarters giant, half giant, a quarter? We don't know, right? That's when you can get lost in the weeds with those who claim to know, but we know he's tied to those that trace right back to these Gigantas, to these Nephilim. The through line is right there. Genesis, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, 2 Samuel. Again, we've been talking about how everything fits together. He's Johnston is not dealing honestly with the text. It's all connected, it's not conspiracy, it's not, oh, getting lost in in Enochian stuff or genealogies. It's like, no, we we just trace the through line using nothing but the Bible. I didn't touch on Enoch at all. And and so uh a man who spent three years Tracing the resurrection belief, you know, through Jewish and Christian literature and stuff. Um to tell the audience there's no connection between Goliath and the Nephilim. I'm not mad. I'm just I'm not even surprised. I'm just disappointed. I'm disappointed in him because he's a he's a he's a bright guy, but he's doing what so many eggheads like him do. And the Lord forgive me, but but uh it's it's it's the academia that causes the brain rot that uh won't allow you to see certain things that are so plainly there.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:30

Nelly, you're doing it just like I hoped you would. Thank you so much for this. Yeah, but I mean, this is what we need. I'm trying, guys. I'm trying. No, you're good. You're blowing my mind, you're you're blowing my mind. But I just want to add one little thing too. I mean, this is kind of redundant, but I gotta say it. Goliath wasn't like Andre the Giant with a genetic defect because he had four brothers that were the same size. Yep. This is uh you don't you don't get that genetic if it was like Andre the Giant's Giantism, it it pops up randomly, one in a you know how many millions of people. This was like a whole family of them. And it tells you that not only does it say it's they're from Gath, like you the love the how you connected the dots there. I didn't I don't know if I've ever heard anybody else do that exactly like that. So thank you. But I just for our casual listeners, yeah, Goliath wasn't an anomaly in his family. He was there's a there was there was four brothers the same size that they went and killed. Yeah. So am I correct? Was there four Nelly? Is that right?

SPEAKER_09 1:51:18

Four others, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:19

Yeah, yeah. The in the in the mining man would would take them out, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:51:22

You know, going back to the original ones, the original Nephilim, they were the biggest ones. And as you come down in I don't know, uh lion lineage, they all become a little bit smaller, but still bigger than any man that we know of.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:37

I mean, and it's yeah, it's just and Nelly, was my was my observation correct earlier when I said that like from my understanding, now Jeremiah Johnson does not talk up, doesn't talk about in this episode, but in other documentaries I've read about the shroud, Jesus is about six foot tall. Now I know that that Jesus is much later in history than um the Nephilim would have been or or Goliath would have been, but the this guy's saying that the you he I think you're gonna play it here in a second, Jesse. He says that Goliath is six foot eight or nine or something like that. It's like crazy. Why would they why would they be shocked by his size? I mean, that's big. It's not a lot of people.

SPEAKER_08 1:52:12

Well, a music lover pointed out too something about Saul. Saul was the king when David fought Goliath, right? And and it why does the author uh of 1 Samuel go out of his way to let us know Saul was a head and shoulders taller than everyone than everyone else? Height was a big deal back, especially back in the Old Testament, right? Being of large stature, that Saul, if you know anything about Saul, a music lover does, is he was handsome and he was tall. Yeah, head and shoulders above everyone else. And if the Bible says you're hot, you must be smoking hot, right? So he's very handsome and he and he's really tall. And uh they he would have been the guy. I mean, we do know that that that God orchestrated Saul's ascension to the throne in a way that yes, he was God's anointed. God chose him to be Israel's first king, but he wasn't the king that they needed, he was the king they deserved at the time. He was a vain king. It was they he's the guy they would have picked if they used only external parameters, right? Because later when you get to David, the true king, it uh Samuel's looking at all the sons of Jesse and he says, There must be one missing, right? And he goes, Well, there's David, you know, he was treated like the redheaded stepchild out in the field. He said, Well, bring him. And and God says, That's the one, because man looks on the outside, but God, he, he looks at the inside, he looks at the heart. And so, yeah, I mean, Saul, he's the guy they would have picked. They wanted the he they wanted a handsome ruler, but they wanted a big one. Why? Because they're facing giants, they're facing brothers from Gath that are much bigger than just a handsome six-footer, right? So, so we're we're we're we're dealing with eight and nine, and you know, look at Og. Og we're dealing with a 13-foot bed. Doesn't mean he had to take up every inch of it, but we're dealing with very large individuals here. And and like Jesse said, it's familial. It's genetic, it's not a genetic defect like with like an Andre or with uh uh uh uh what was his name? I know his initials are it's with the W, but the guy, the Guinness guy, yeah, is the tallest guy. Yeah, I I mean he he's he's a big guy, but I mean he died early because those that that uh have that anomaly. They're messed up, yeah. They they're a mess. He wasn't yeah, they're a mess. He wasn't robust. He wasn't robust, he was gangly and he was not, and most and most aren't when they're when they're tall because of a genetic defect, and not from in this case, it wasn't a defect, it was it was a part of the genet material. Now, when it comes to uh kind of a side note that this is me going a little beyond the text, but but just for for just for thought, right? And we won't have time to really talk about it here, maybe at some future time, uh, is is uh I think the giant part of this uh you know, the whole Days of Noah thing, and and they're gonna cohabitate again. And I think they're currently doing some of those things now. The chat's been live about aliens and Matt Gates and and how these aliens love to mess with fertility and that kind of stuff. And that's that's all this is the Nephilim agenda that's that's at play here, right? And and and so I think the giant part was only useful in the ancient world. I don't think they're making giants anymore. I think they're making these hybrids. I I think that they're in the hybrid game still, but I don't think giantism is of any value because a nuke don't care about a giant, you know, you know what I'm saying? A bullet don't care about a giant, you know. So so when as they genetically manipulate going forward, it I uh a giant was useful when you're dealing with spears and and chariots and the well the chariots maybe not at that time, but but you understand what I'm saying is ancient warfare, being bigger, being stronger. But but now we're dealing, we're we're fighting wars on different fronts. And uh I just think when they get into the manipulation of things currently, they're messing with different parts of the of the genome, right? Where where's where size is not as much what they're worried about. They I'm sure they want to blend in more because that's where they're gonna be more dangerous. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's that's just something to kind of drop out there the bloodlines to think about.

SPEAKER_09 1:56:00

Yep, the same bloodlines still occur and and happen today. And you know, you can follow them right down through the banking system. Um let's get into uh Jeremiah and what else he's talking about here.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:13

Hebrew text of first Samuel that's cleared it up. Goliath is four cubits and a hand breadth. He was probably six six or six ten, um, which was huge for his day, but he's not ten feet, he's not six cubits. We have an older manuscript that clears that up for us. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:32

When did Christianity reach Ethiopia? I mean, it's just it's such an odd location.

SPEAKER_09 1:56:37

Well, actually, and and so Sean has no really questions. He he can't question this stuff. Yeah, he doesn't know enough about it. Yeah, he he couldn't question any of that stuff, so he's just taking it all in. And his viewers here, I don't know if they're probably getting all fooled too, unless they know what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:53

But uh there's odd. I mean, just to continue, I mean, there's connections with Solomon and the Queen of Sheba. Um, there's thought to even be several from Africa in his. We do know that he had a 700 concubines. Um, so there's there's a lot of apocryphal.

SPEAKER_08 1:57:15

Well, go ahead and pause this for a second. Yeah, he'll believe that. But this this guy, I mean, bless his heart. This guy, oh, how did the gospel get to Ethiopia? We have in the book of Acts, you got Philip who was teleported by God. He is taken up and he is put next to an Ethiopian eunuch who is reading, and he would have been wealthy because scrolls at the time were mad expensive. And this guy is reading the scroll of Isaiah. He's reading Isaiah 53, which screams Jesus. It has nothing to do with Israel and everything to do with Jesus, with the suffering servant who would be a substitutionary sacrifice, right? He's reading it and he goes, Man, I wish somebody was here to that could tell me what this means. And here, boom, here's Philip. He shows up right next to him and says, I can tell you exactly who that's about. And the guy gets saved on the roadside and he says, You know, what's keeping me from being baptized? Once I get baptized in the closest body of water, so they find something, he immediately gets baptized. Well, that same guy would have gone back, Mr. Eunuch would have gone back to Ethiopia. New convert to Christianity. He goes back, and so so to say you don't know, I just man, I'm having a real hard time. Uh you you can be so smart and then miss such simple things. And I and I think that that's where this guy is at. He's got his head in the academic clouds, yeah, that he can he can so easily miss some of the most simple things. And like you guys have been pointing out, here he is picking picking apart the height thing. Well, there's no way he could have been 10 feet tall. It's like, well, he could have been, he could have been like Og because they all share that genetic material. But but um again, you just got done arguing Jesus being six foot. Eight inches ain't that that that much different when we're dealing with with Goliath. And he was terrifying the entire army. You mean to tell me an entire army was floored by a guy that was six eight when their king was already super tall? Like, shut up. Like, I'm sorry, but perfect point. Yes, you know.

SPEAKER_09 1:59:12

Yeah, exactly. Perfect point. Oh, I love let's keep going.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:17

Legendary stories that come out of the connection of Sheba with Solomon. There's no history behind it, it comes from the intertestamental period. These are legendary stories. When I lived in Oxford, I took my kid, my daughter Lily, and my wife Audrey to Gastonbury. I don't know. Glastonbury is like where a big musical fest is. We didn't go to that. But I went there because there was a legend that Joseph of Arimathea had brought Jesus to Glastonbury in England. You know, it's just a total legend, yeah. Right by King Arthur, by the way, where King Arthur was buried and the Knights of the Round Table. I mean, different Christian communities developed these unique, legendary, almost fanatical perspectives that are based on their ethnicity, where they're from, what they're facing. And so what you have though, no the first Enoch was never removed from our Christian Bibles. It was part of the canon or library of Ethiopian Christians because their text developed in much more isolation, because it's amazing there are any Christians at all in Ethiopia after the Islamic conquest. So it's just important to help people understand the concept of canon rule, you know, what we call canon. The Bible is a library, and we have to always make sure we keep it. There's genres of our library. There are books, there are biographies, there's poem, wisdom literature, half of the psalms are psalms of lament. And so we just need there's nothing hidden. We're not going to be able to do that. Can you pause it there real quick? Now, when I teach, which I What's that?

SPEAKER_08 2:00:55

So there's a lot, there's a lot of humble brag going on, right? And Music Lover caught it too, because he drops Oxford in there just casually, even though it has nothing to do with the question that Sean Ryan asked, right? So so this the he's currently doing, and I've fallen into this trap too, because I can be pretty long-winded, but he he is saying a whole lot without saying anything. Sean Ryan asked, How did Christianity reach Ethiopia? Yep. It wasn't about Enoch, it had nothing to do with the Queen of Sheba, it had nothing to do with and here's the thing that there are connections, I mean, between Solomon and and and that part of the world, but but that's not what his question was. It was how did Christianity reach there? And the book of Acts shows us it started with one man, the Ethiopian eunuch. When he goes back, he's bringing the gospel with him. Now, we don't have a lot of explanation after the fact, but again, here he is, he's saying a lot without saying anything at all. He never answered a lot of the questions that Sean Ryan is asking, he's not actually answering the question. He's talking around them and he's saying a lot of things that can show off how smart he is how much time he's spent. Yeah, he's painting like that. So it's all posturing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so he's saying a lot without saying anything. And it's and it's incredibly frustrated, frustrating because there's a lot of people that are listening to this, listening to you know, Sean Ryan, that that, you know, Sean Ryan in his defense, he's had guys like Johnston on that say, you know, some good, some bad, but then he's got other guys who would come on and and affirm some of these these uh beliefs, you know. Uh um, so he he has be you can already tell Sean Ryan is familiar with the Nephilim story, the Genesis 6 interpretation that's more supernatural, or he would have never brought it up in the first place. So he has had guests on that had that view. And in fairness, he's having a guest on that holds to another view, even though he never actually defends it. But in this case, Sean Ryan asked a very specific question, and I just wanted to point out that Mr. Intellectual, high and mighty here never answered the actual question itself. Right. He talked around it and he showed off a bunch of information that had nothing to do with the question.

SPEAKER_09 2:02:55

Yep, and he's fluffing up his feathers. Let's keep going. Yes, again, yes, look how smart.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:03

Sure, read them. As soon as you read them, you're gonna realize why they're not in the Bible. We need to give first century Christians a little bit more credit. You know, we there's a reason. I encourage people to just read them. You'll see uh, you know, my my expertise is what we call extra canonical gospels. And in Oxford, you couldn't call them apocryphal because I was seeing as pejorative, that I was privileging the biblical text, so I call them extra canonical. They get the rivers wrong, they get the names wrong, there's alien things in them. Um, they they don't get the language right. I mean, Richard Baccom did a book called Jesus and the Eyewitnesses, where he points out that all you have to do is read the, you know, there's like 70 Gospels outside of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John um within a 400-year period after Jesus. All you have to do is read them and you'll figure out why they're not in our Bibles. The Gospel of Peter has a giant cross, follows Jesus out of the tomb and starts talking. You have polymorphic Christology in the Gospel of Peter. We have only one witness to it. Um, you have by polymorphic Christology, Jesus is a giant. The angels are hang on a second.

SPEAKER_09 2:04:08

Hang on. Yeah, but down there by his foot, by his leg. Is that like a thorny?

SPEAKER_08 2:04:16

That's a that's a replica of the uh crown of thorns, what it actually would have looked like. It wouldn't have been a nice little cute circlet. It most likely would have been something that went over the entire head, which is why the shroud happens to yeah, like a cage, but because the puncture wounds on the shroud match the the more historically accurate uh crown of thorns that they would have placed on his head. It wouldn't have been, like I said, the cute little circlet. It would have been a big ol' honk and thing like that. So the puncture wounds wouldn't have just been around the brow. They would have been puncturing from all around the skull, all around the head. It would have been far more painful than the than the cute one that we've been that's been popularized in a lot of the imagery. But um I was gonna ask you to pause it again because of something he's doing. Again, it's the bait and switch, right? Is is he lays out Enoch and then he equates it to all of these other false gospel accounts that came centuries after Mark, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, right? We we we know that there are a ton of false gospels that have all kinds of erroneous data in them. We're well aware that those exist. And when you read them, they don't line up with the synoptic gospels. We know that they were, they came much later. They were they were all pseudopagraphical, meaning, and this was common. Slap somebody else's name on it as though they were the author, even though they weren't. It wasn't seen as being dishonest. It was just something that was common in ancient writing, right? Uh, but but uh I don't like he's doing it again. Is he lays out something that's clearly false, which are all these extra gospel accounts that we purposely don't include in the New Testament because we know they're forgeries, we know they're fakes, we know they came centuries after the apostles, right? We know that. But then he takes his he's sneaky and tries to say, and see, Enoch is just like that, guys. So we don't really need to know it. And it's like, stop it, stop it, because the apostles read first Enoch. They quote it. So we know they were familiar with the material. So you pretending as though the false gospel of Peter or Jude or whoever, Thomas, all these false gospels that came centuries after, Enoch is not that, especially first Enoch. It was read by the apostles, it's quoted, it shaped, it's not inspired, but it shaped how they viewed their world. And so I don't like how he equates the two. It's intellectually dishonest. Um, again, I'm I'm I'm not surprised because of the circles that he travels in and he loves to let everybody know about it. Um yeah, anyways, I I I won't do it.

SPEAKER_05 2:06:39

Well, I I I I want to add that you know, in a a classic uh gaslighting m move, he he says to people that are uneducated on the topic, he says, go ahead and read it if you want to. He's he's implying if you want to waste your time because there's nothing in value. Yeah, you're right. Right. So so it's funny because if you pick up the book of Enoch and you read Enoch 1 and the first, you know, uh the first part of it, up to what chapter 46, I think, it gets it's it's interesting, and it has it has application and understanding that adds value to your Bible reading. It really does. Um, and even it blows my mind.

SPEAKER_08 2:07:17

Well, even the whole picture of of there being, you know, Sheol, you have Hades or Sheol, the underworld, and there being a place underneath that was specifically for housing supernatural beings and rebellion. Yep, Peter talks about that. Well, guess where that imagery shows up first? The Enochian literature. And yet Peter has no problem using, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, has no problem using that same imagery. Why? Because, well, that's how it is. Those beings, the first wave of Benecha Elohim that rebelled, they were confined, according to Jude, according to Peter, they were confined. And Peter gives, he gives, he uses the Greek term for it, Tartarus. And he says that's where they're confined. But but that idea also is found in the book of Enoch. Again, it shaped their thinking, it has value. And I I agree with you, Alcast, that the way that he talks about if you want to, you know, uh if you really want to waste your time, you know, you want to waste an afternoon. I guess you could read that stupid book.

SPEAKER_09 2:08:14

It's like I give you permission to read it. Yep. Yeah, Jenny Peter didn't think it was stupid.

SPEAKER_05 2:08:19

And you know what the normies are gonna do. They're gonna go, well, obviously it's not worth reading. I'm not gonna uh go out and try to find a copy of that. I I I got my Bible here, and it's like he's he's hiding the fact that it can be uh I hate to steal this term, but it's a Timothy Alberino term. Enoch can be a rosetta stone to better understanding the the Bible, the you know, the ark of the Bible in a lot of ways. Yeah, um, another thing, a thing that I I can't get over, there's a couple other aspects of Enoch that I love, and I I I love to ponder them in Enoch chapter one, right off the first uh right out of the gate, it says essentially, see, I actually I can just read it here, um, in the words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his uh parable and said, Enoch, a righteous man whose eyes were opened by God, and saw the vision of the holy one in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood and I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one, which is for to come. To me, I think this is prophetic, saying the these writings are intended for those living in the last generation. Another thing I love about this first chapter is he mentions that there'll be wickedness removed from the earth. That's uh if you read the parable of uh I think it's Matthew 13, uh the parable of the wheat and the tares, Jesus says the wicked will be removed from the earth. Okay. And then and then you get later into uh chapter 46, it talks about his hair being white as wool. That's exactly what it says in Revelation. Um later in chapter 48, there's something else. Oh, he talks about the one who was and is and is to come, essentially. Exactly what uh uh John chapter one says about Jesus in the very beginning. The one who, you know, the the one who was there in the beginning. Enoch talks about him in night in chapter 40, about the Messiah in the exact same context. I actually, for a hobby this past weekend, I went through and I found all the Eno Enochian um references to Jesus and marked them in my Bible. It's it's it's it's yeah, it's it's interesting. It's beyond the the Nephilim, it has other things that I think are really quite interesting. I mean, yeah, correct me if I'm wrong, Nelly, but I think it it's it's fascinating on a multitude of levels.

SPEAKER_08 2:10:37

Well, in the the apocryphal terminology that they use as well, it it heavily influenced the vocabulary of the apostles. There, there's uh I I believe it was Heiser as well that that did work on that, that a lot of the terminology that they use uh uh um can concerning end time stuff, uh end of the world type stuff, um, and uh uh even terms of Messiah. Uh yeah, a lot of the the the terms for messiah and a lot of terms for uh eschatological terms uh were ha uh uh it looked like they're ripped from the pages of of Enoch, which is just really interesting. Again, it just shows that it informed their thinking heavily.

SPEAKER_05 2:11:14

Yeah, yeah. That's what I'm trying to say. Thank you for cinching that up for me. Thank you. That's exactly what I was trying to say.

SPEAKER_09 2:11:18

All right, appreciate that. Let's finish this thing off here.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:23

And you have a hovering talking cross. And some people wanted to call that the fifth gospel. The hovering talking cross. Yeah, the cross gospel. John Dominic Crosson wrote about it. So again, we have one witness to it, P. Cairo 10, 759, uh, which by the way does include some aspects of Enoch and some other things. Um, so again, you know, these are libraries that traveled together. The church was very intelligent in that they recognized immediately the sacredness of scripture. So, like Jerome would have said in the Latin Vulgate, these books are sacred, the Apocrypha is. Helpful for uh helping us understand. I want to be very clear, it helps us understand the world in which they were written and appreciated. Bishop Serapian at Rossus read the right screen.

SPEAKER_05 2:12:14

Bring it up. Now he's saying it's important. Now now he's saying it's important. Now he's saying it has value. Yeah, which he did just a minute ago. It didn't.

SPEAKER_09 2:12:23

This guy He's got that NDS boy.

SPEAKER_05 2:12:30

You know, I I I hate I don't mean to pick on anybody's appearance. I have no room. I'm but that quaff should have been a red flag for me from the beginning. I don't know. That I always tell people that I gotta I got a face for radio.

SPEAKER_06 2:12:43

You know, but but Jeremiah, I'm talking about Jeremiah Johnson's quaff. That's what I'm talking about. Oh, I know, I know, but but music lovers evangelists written all over it.

SPEAKER_09 2:12:52

Oh, totally. Looks like uh, what is it, um baby Uncle Billy or baby whatever.

SPEAKER_08 2:12:59

You know what it's giving car salesmen, it's giving car salesmen, right?

SPEAKER_06 2:13:03

It does, it does.

SPEAKER_09 2:13:04

Um music lovers says only one witness to talk into uh to a talking cross. No wonder Jesus made sure hundreds of people saw him after the resurrection if that guy is uh getting recognition. You know what something else you said too, Nelly, was the um uh talking about Sheol and uh uh Tartarus. Remember when Jesus died, he went down there and he talked to them and scared them. Yeah, he's what are you doing down here? Jesus and he told him, We're gonna you're gonna see us again. And uh, you know, so so that there's this whole thing there about that, you know, and they're locked down there. And uh he's like, peace out. We're gonna you'll see all of us again uh later. Yeah when that day comes.

SPEAKER_08 2:13:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 2:13:46

Dang. All right. Let's we gotta keep we gotta get through this, you guys. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:51

Clowning on his hair and stuff. Here we go. Christian community along with the gospels. So you just have this emergence of unique traditions with some of these different Christian communities. That's all there is, and we've known this forever. And not by we, I mean Bible scholars. So when I hear this fascination with Enoch and Giants, there's no connection, Sean, between Goliath or Giants today.

SPEAKER_08 2:14:20

We already dismantled that. Yeah, we already dismantled that. That that that it really um I mean, for him to not be able to do that, and he loves, oh, well, we scholars, we know we knew this material existed, we scholars didn't, we know it's stupid. And it's like, I I'm no scholar. I I I am an idiot self-taught pastor hanging out in my office surrounded by action figures of Ghostbusters. And I just went through the five passages that get you from Genesis 6 to Goliath and show how Goliath very much is connected to the Nephilim because Joshua, the book of Joshua told us the Anakim, the Nephilim survived in Gaza and Gath and Ashdah, you know, so yeah, that for him to be able to say it and say it with his chest out is so frustrating. But he's not unique in that, though. He's not unique in that, and so you know, he he's not the first, he won't be the last. And even though uh, you know, Johnson is on Sean Ryan, hasn't Timmy Alberino been on Sean Ryan too? Uh maybe, I don't know. Maybe I'm pretty sure he was on there as well. So, so in Sean Ryan's defense, he he as a as as doing what he's doing with his show is having people on with various views and allowing them to state their positions, uh, you know, that that that's what he's doing. And so yes, he gave Johnson airtime, but I think he did. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 2:15:44

I think I think when Al Al Bruno was on, it was it he was relegated to uh alien disclosure, honestly.

SPEAKER_08 2:15:51

I don't oh that air, yes. I told you it's giving car salesman. I think he's gonna slap the roof and tell me, you know, boom, boom. We all know that that book is stupid. Yeah. But let me get you into this used Honda Civic. All right. Wow. Wait, go back to that picture one more time. Dr. Wright from my show, you know. That's how some people imagined him before. I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_09 2:16:23

Have you got that's hilarious? Do you guys know what this is from, right?

SPEAKER_06 2:16:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:16:30

Righteous gemstones. Righteous jumpstones crazy. Yeah, I'll bet you he's got uh ostrich skin boots on, too.

SPEAKER_09 2:16:35

Oh, he does. He's got everything. Baby Billy's got everything. Golly.

SPEAKER_06 2:16:41

Man, I'm just getting mean now. I'm sorry. I know. We're sorry.

SPEAKER_09 2:16:45

No, it's fun.

SPEAKER_08 2:16:46

You're fine. You're fine.

SPEAKER_09 2:16:50

Do we need to look at more of this? Uh Jeremiah Johnstone. Do we get the the I think we got the quite frankly? Okay, I do too.

SPEAKER_05 2:16:57

I think we did a fan, I think we did a great job of dismantling it. And uh, and it was way better with Nelly. If I would have tried to do it, I don't think it would, I would have gone as deep, anywhere near as deep. Um, also, people over here in the comments fire Doug and other people are saying, uh, and uh we should send it to Sean Ryan this episode.

SPEAKER_09 2:17:12

Oh, you're talking about Deb Santos, too, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:17:15

Deb Santos said it also. Yeah, sorry, I lost it. Yeah, but yeah, they said they both said we should send it to Sean Ryan. I was thinking that while we were doing it too. I'm like, man, Sean Ryan needs to see this because he he had real questions. I mean, Sean Ryan's asking questions, and here this this guy that's coming across like a Bible scholar is telling him, Don't you worry your pretty little head about that, Sean. That's a bunch of that's a bunch of nonsense. Don't you even think about it, it's garbage. Yeah, you know, it's like, come on, dude.

SPEAKER_09 2:17:39

Yeah, it's crazy that uh that this, but see, here's the thing. This guy, he's able to get away with it. Okay. Uh for how long, I don't know, but he's getting away with it right now. Well, when did that show come out?

SPEAKER_05 2:17:52

Do you guys know what what episode when that was it was it was meant for an Easter release, is what it was for.

SPEAKER_09 2:17:58

Okay. Well, I just put on the screen right here.

SPEAKER_05 2:18:00

His position.

SPEAKER_08 2:18:01

Well, his position though is the popular one, though. I I I mean his position is the predominant position. This this this message, this reality has been suppressed for a really long time, and it's been dismissed and looked at as stupid. And Heiser, man, he lit a fire on this and put put validity to it, scholarly validity to it. And and so, you know, um, I I don't even I'm not even really mad at him, you know, about at this Johnston guy. It breaks my heart, you know. But but he is beholden to the circles that he wants to be accepted in. Right. So there's certain things that he's not willing to entertain so that he can continue to travel in his Oxford circles. And so uh, but but I'd rather I'd rather be accepted by the dregs if it means I have truth. I want truth above acceptance in some of these ivory towers. And uh that was something uh Heiser, as brilliant as he was, was willing to hang out with if he were still here. I I live very close to where where he operated out of up here in Washington because he worked for Logos and and they're based up here. So I actually met a guy who met who who used to have uh lunch with him and have conversations and stuff. If he was here, I know he'd be willing to sit down and have a conversation with me and not think he was better than me. And that because he he was he was a cool guy like that, you know. So um this Johnston guy, bless his heart, you know. You can tell he's passionate about the Lord, he's out there defending the tur the shroud of Turin. He clearly knows a lot about that. I just wish he would stick to what he knows about and shut up about stuff he doesn't know about or that he's not willing to entertain.

SPEAKER_05 2:19:33

You know what, Nelly? I think you tapped into something really interesting there. I think that he is an expert in that very relegated area. And when he was asked on the show and Sean started asking the weird questions and he wasn't prepared to answer them, he went into full-blown BS mode. He went into I'm gonna talk about Oxford mode. Yeah, Oxford talk in circles mode. I'm gonna gaslight you with the the fact that I know more than you and I'm not gonna answer your question directly. I mean, yeah, it's I don't he I don't think he was prepared for those questions. He was he didn't like I think he didn't like it, I bet. That's funny. Um, music lover always with her her great comments. He's a grifter. Uh it's great that he loves Jesus, but he left his soul in the library at Oxford. I think that's brilliant. And then uh and fire dog, he says, uh, I can see the headlines. Jesse Outcast and Nelly bring biblical correctness to the Sean Ryan show. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_09 2:20:26

Oh my gosh. Yeah, I don't I don't want to look what we were clowning on him a little bit, but I don't know. He deserved it.

SPEAKER_06 2:20:33

He had it coming. He clowned on us. He did, he's dunking on all of us, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:20:39

Yeah, he with the huge. And I'm only making fun of his hair because I'm jealous. That's all. Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_05 2:20:47

But uh hey, Nelly, man, I cannot thank you enough. I know how busy you are, brother. And you you know, you I've said it before, I'm gonna say it again. Thank you for being obedient and coming on our show. Um, I just really wanted you to to to take a look at this with me because I knew that it was gonna trigger you like it did me. And I really wanted to set the record straight for not just our listeners, but anybody listen because it's so fun. He's got the zither at the bottom.

SPEAKER_08 2:21:12

That's all it might be able to. But no, thank you guys for for letting me come on. And I'm so, you know, it was it was providential because you know, you guys had to move the show to Tuesday because Jesse's traveling, but that works out because Tuesday is is uh typically my my my day off. So I was able to uh give a little bit more time than last time. I I kind of just kind of squeezed in toward the end there and had to pop out. And I had a little bit of a little temper tantrum as we talked about some more controversial stuff the last time I was on, but uh but but this time around, talking about some things that I've already long wrestled with and and planted my flag in. And I'm no by far, I'm no expert. I'm no scholar. Again, Johnson has has forgotten more than than I've learned. Um, and and a lot of what I've learned, I've had to unlearn and relearn. And uh I don't claim to be an expert in anything. I'm open to other views, I'm open to correction. But if you're gonna correct me, uh it's gotta come from scripture. Uh and I gotta be persuaded by the Bible. I will not be persuaded by anything else. And um, you know, Johnston, I I pray that uh the Lord would continue to give him opportunities to speak on the things that he's confident about and that he knows about and that he'd amplify the message of Christ. Paul said, what what whether Christ is preached with with pure motives or impure motives, Paul said, I rejoice that Christ is preached, you know, because there were guys even in his day that didn't have the best of motives. And I don't even I don't even think Johnston's got bad motives here. I do think that those that travel in academic circles do get compromised because they want to stay accepted in those circles. Uh, but but do I think he's spiritually compromised? That he's, you know, um, yeah, again, heresy is what threatens the gospel's credibility. Johnston is not saying salvation comes in any other way but the cross of Jesus Christ. So Johnston is a brother. I'm jealous of his hair, but Billy. But but I, you know, he's a brother, and and so I don't want to, you know, and and if he or Sean Ryan sees this at some point, which, you know, uh God is in control of, if that were the case, he's a I see him as a brother. I I respect the the edifying things that he said, and I would respectfully disagree with some of the other things that speak of the supernatural. I'd say, man, if Heiser was here, I'd love for him to sit down and talk with Johnston and uh he could scholarly put him, you know, maybe they could have a cup of coffee at Oxford. I don't know. Well, it's probably not the Oxford type.

SPEAKER_09 2:23:30

I I like it. I mean you go ahead, Alcaz.

SPEAKER_05 2:23:34

Yeah, I'll I'll say it. I'll just say Nelly, you are you are humble and you're a better man than I because I I I I took his flagrant mockery of what we have been researching, you more than any of us, uh, as an as sort of an affront. I I really did. I I hate to be that fragile, but I'm just kind of like, dude, you you you're kind of mocking, you know, and it's a listen, it's a reoccurring theme. The people that do the least amount of research on a topic are the ones with the biggest opinions and the scoffing and the mocking attitudes. I see it all the time. I uh and I saw and I saw it today. I was with this, I was trying to witness to this young lady. She knew nothing. And yet, you know, they kind of they're I don't believe she said she said things to me like just as an example, she says, uh yeah, the what your morality comes from a book that's uh what four million years old? And I was like, What? She goes, okay, two million years old. I'm like, try two thousand years old. She was clueless, she has no concept of what the Bible even is or what it says, and she's trying to tell me I don't believe in it because I don't believe what's in it, but I've never read it, and I don't even understand anything about it. That's what the vibe I get off of this Jeremiah Johnston tone, too. It's the same thing. It's like the people that don't know much are the ones who go, you don't believe that, do you?

SPEAKER_06 2:24:47

That's dumb. That's really stupid. And you're like, You haven't you haven't looked into this at all. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a recurring theme for me.

SPEAKER_09 2:24:55

There, there's the academic, uh, you know, back uh the the whole backdraft of that is the the academic uh symbolism. Um that's not the right word. Uh the institutional academic, you know, it's just that that that's what they learn though. You know, that's when when we had Mark Carpenter on, he told us about all this stuff. He was in all that, and you know, they they would not let him come forward with a lot of stuff that he was finding out. And he there was an instant uh academic wall that he ran into. Remember that establishment kind of stuff. So yeah, crazy stuff. Uh yeah, uh Pastor Nelly, you have the patience, way more patience than I would for any of this kind of stuff, because I would just want to be clowning on him and putting out baby billy pictures and stuff, but um we we shouldn't be doing that, obviously.

SPEAKER_06 2:25:43

And oh uh, you know, so you got you can we we can't say goodnight without this last comment from uh music lover. She says he's part of the body of Christ, but maybe he's the gallbladder. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_09 2:26:00

She says, yeah, the tangible, yeah, it's crazy. So I don't know. Maybe okay. Look, so so if we're going up against the establishment academia, uh maybe this is the way to do it because Sean Ryan's not going to be able to do it, right? He he can't do it, and there's no way I could have done it without you guys, especially now uh Nelly. Uh, you know, there's there's no way we could have tackled something like this. But uh, you know, with with your background, you gave us the confidence to go ahead and speak on this. And uh, you know, it it all you know falls off the back of Heiser, where it all started from on this episode. Michael Heiser, man.

SPEAKER_07 2:26:33

Chuck Misler.

SPEAKER_09 2:26:33

Yeah, and Chuck Misler. Uh great, great guys. But listen, we have to keep these things late.

SPEAKER_08 2:26:40

Who? Who's that? Who's that? Dr. Tim Chafey. Okay, uh, that's the guy that wrote that book, Fallen, the Sons of God. Um, yeah, check check that book out because he he's also uh into creation research and stuff. So so uh he's uh I mean brilliant guy typically is dealing with uh young earth and creationists kind of stuff. Um, but but he did his doctoral work um on the the the Nephilim, and he I mean it's a it's a it's a tome. Uh four verses, five verses of the Bible at 500 pages worth. I mean, he uh a a lot of uh a lot of what has shaped my understanding between the unseen realm and and that book by him that that's really helped. Uh and then um uh Doug Van Dorn, too. I'm sure. Oh yeah, Doug Van Dorn's he's he he's he's got some uh I I can't I can't remember the name of his book, but he also uh has has done some work with with this as well. And his it's fascinating as well, because even some of the names of the different giant clans um have different meanings and could have suggested specific things about their about their clans and maybe some of the the abilities that they had that they I told you the size thing might have got swapped out somewhere along the way for some of these tribes, you know. So um, yeah, uh great great minds. Uh I'm uh I'm I'm a nobody, but uh I'm I'm grateful that I get to know somebody and uh that somebody's Jesus. And I'm I'm grateful that he has allowed me to meet awesome guys like you and uh that the Lord has brought our paths together. And like I said, today was was very providential because it it worked out that I was able to give it as much time as I could um on a Tuesday as opposed to to a Monday, because Mondays are usually really hard for me because uh Tuesday's my release day. So I'm I'm typically up till four or five in the morning trying to get ready for for for release. And so I don't I don't sleep much on Monday. Right. But uh, anyways, uh thank you guys for allowing me to to fellowship with you guys and and share what little I do know about some of these uh some of these biblical topics, and I I hope it it blessed those that were able to hear.

SPEAKER_09 2:28:38

Yeah, well, it was awesome. Any final words, Alcast? Or did you say them yet?

SPEAKER_05 2:28:42

I've said an I've said enough, but love you, brother. Thank you so much for coming on the show. You really you really helped shore this idea together. We couldn't have done it without you. Love you so much, and uh, and I pray that your ministry goes far and wide, that God takes your word, the words that you have to say, your humility and your love of his word. I pray it goes to the ends of the earth, brother. I really do. God bless you. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_09 2:29:04

That's right. Pastor Nelly, everybody, the Dancing Toaster Podcast. Go check him out on all social media at the dancing, at the dancing toaster. And uh tomorrow, when you guys wake up tomorrow, go find his episodes, all right? Go listen to the to the uh podcast. It's really good. And uh, Nelly, good to see you, brother. Glad you came back. And uh, we'll keep this thing going. I want to see, let's brainstorm how we're gonna get this over to Sean Ryan. All right, it's gotta happen. All right, guys. Hey, Nelly, stay dangerous, brother. We'll talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_07 2:29:35

God bless.

SPEAKER_09 2:29:35

All right. Awesome, Malcash. Look at that. Oh, what a brick guy. That worked out better than I could have um guessed.

SPEAKER_05 2:29:45

Yeah, me too. And I learned stuff that I didn't even uh he was saying things that I wasn't even connecting the dots on, so I'm so glad that we got him involved on this because I was just gonna rant on a few things. So wow, I knew he was gonna go deep. Yeah, which is good. And and you know, I mean, I think that you know, between even comments from Music Lover and our savvy listeners over here that are making comments, everybody's seeing through this. I mean, you can't you're gonna go out there on national, you know, on a huge platform like that and just mock an entire theology of the city.

SPEAKER_09 2:30:13

Listen, I I can equate it, I can equate it to something.

SPEAKER_05 2:30:16

What's that?

SPEAKER_09 2:30:18

They just sent astronauts to the moon uh outcast around the moon.

SPEAKER_08 2:30:23

Gaslight 24-7.

SPEAKER_09 2:30:25

And if you don't believe it, well you're a you're a rube. Yeah, so so just what I'm saying is like, look, they they expect us to believe that they sent somebody or you know, sent them around the moon and all these things, and then then you have bad uh baby Billy talking all this smack on on the giants, and he's got the Nephilim uh derangement syndrome. It's just it's never gonna end. We're always gonna be up against this establishment, uh, you know, academia, uh, science, um, media, everything. We're always gonna be up against that world, okay? We are the Davids going up against these giants, okay?

SPEAKER_05 2:31:03

Amen, brother. I love it. Yes.

SPEAKER_09 2:31:04

So I'm fine with that position. You know, call us crazy, whatever it is. Your shirt. All right. Noah's telling people it's gonna rain. They're like, what do you mean rain? We don't we don't even know what that is. There's nothing gonna rain. You're a conspiracy theorist, but then it started raining. Noah didn't even know what rain was. But God told him, He said, Hey, you gotta build this thing, build it to these specs. Oh, but don't worry about the door. When you guys get in there, I'll close the door for you. Tell us about that. You know, that that door clip being closed. There's just so much. There's so much. But again, I'm glad to be a little David around here, uh, you know, going up against these Goliaths. So what? Uh bring it.

SPEAKER_04 2:31:44

I love that attitude.

SPEAKER_09 2:31:45

Yeah, I love it. Bring it. And that's what that's what it feels like going up against these politics right now. Uh, it's just it's just it's a whole mess. And NASA and all this nonsense. When's it gonna end? It's not, it's not gonna, it's get in fact, it's gonna get worse. Okay. So listen, we got to get some final thoughts. Uh, did we miss anything? I'm sure we did that we left a lot of gold on the table because we always do, but we can try to pick it up on the next one.

SPEAKER_05 2:32:08

It's really late, brother. I'm not gonna say much, but I I am gonna say one more time, one more appeal. If you guys are writing down for your prayer list, uh, pray for the young woman I met tonight named Madison. Um, like I said, when I witnessed to her, she got a tear in her eye, but she was defiant that she didn't believe in God and she never was gonna believe in God and she doesn't um she did come out of uh not that this means anything, but she did say that later on she admitted that she came out of Catholicism. Um and I and when I said to her, I said, listen, this is about relationship, it's not about religiosity. So if you saw something in religion that you didn't like, do not let that interfere with your ability to connect to God and have a relationship with Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 2:32:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 2:32:46

Um, but she was defiant, she was she was politely defiant, but I I know that God people aren't made of Teflon and God's word sticks. So please, you guys, just pray for uh for Madison if you think of it. Just add her to your your list if you can, and you know, let's just just hit hit her with lots of prayer. And that's I'll leave that that tonight, Jesse. I could go on more, I'll but I'll stop.

SPEAKER_09 2:33:06

Little Madison, all right, awesome. Thank you, brother. And uh I just want to say a word. Uh I don't know uh did I mention my friend Bob to everybody here on the show before? I don't know if I brought him up or not.

SPEAKER_05 2:33:17

It's been a it's been a while if he did.

SPEAKER_09 2:33:19

Yeah, well, he he passed on uh Thursday, I think. It was Thursday or Friday. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_05 2:33:26

And uh surrounded surrounded by family, I assume.

SPEAKER_09 2:33:28

Yeah, his wife and daughters. Um and I'll be going to that funeral on Friday.

SPEAKER_05 2:33:34

I'm sorry, Jesse. I'm sorry for your loss. I know you you cared about him.

SPEAKER_09 2:33:37

Oh yeah, great man. Great man. Um what's that?

SPEAKER_05 2:33:44

Uh I have a praise to add to uh last week last week I prayed for I have a praise to add to last week uh I prayed for Pastor Ron Shiver down in uh North Carolina. Yep, his open heart surgery was a success. So if anybody out there prayed for Ron Shiver, Thank you. Thanks everybody for praying because it turned out everything turned out great. He's gonna fight another day.

SPEAKER_09 2:34:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:34:06

Awesome. Sorry, Jesse. Didn't mean to cut you off about that.

SPEAKER_09 2:34:08

Oh no, it's all right. Yeah, Bob Mahan, you guys. Awesome guy. Awesome guy. We've got uh stories about him. He's in one of my videos over on my other YouTube channel and everything. And uh good guy. He just lived right down the road. Uh his you know, great uh wife and kids, and uh they're they're they're my age, the kids, but uh yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 2:34:26

He was a Vietnam veteran.

SPEAKER_09 2:34:28

Yeah, yep. And uh pulmonary uh uh uh what's it called? No, no, um pulmonary fibrosis. Fibrosis is what it is. Uh he was around those he was he was a navy man, he was a veteran. That's why there's gonna be a big event for his uh funeral here on Friday. Um he's a Navy man, he was on a warship and uh yes, uh Vietnam and asbestos on the pipes, just like on the old factories around here. Same thing. I think he uh life got a little cut a little too short, is what I'm saying, okay? So um it's in God's hands now, you know. There's nothing we can do but you know, I uh honor his memory, and that's what we're gonna do on Friday. So uh great man, huh?

SPEAKER_05 2:35:25

What would you what would you say his mental and spiritual state was before he passed? Was he?

SPEAKER_09 2:35:29

I went and I um remember a couple weeks ago, my wife went to the airport to move my daughter in New York. Well, after I dropped her off the airport, I drove to the hospital and and sat with him for I don't know, about 45 minutes before they booted me out. And uh his wife was there. Uh Cindy, hey Cindy. Uh, but she was there too. And but you know, I just sat down next to him and we just talked, and he was just as sharp as we are right here. He just can't breathe. I'm like, Bob, what's going on? He goes, I just can't get air, man. Wow, his mind is fine, his mind was all there, everything is good. You know, he's he's he's one of those guys that reloaded. When I go hunting, he was my original the uh the hunting camp guy, you know, those uh all those pictures and all that stuff. Uh he got me back out into the hunting just you know a few years back.

SPEAKER_05 2:36:18

So um did you say he he reloaded his own shelves?

SPEAKER_09 2:36:21

Oh yeah, yep, he's got all the good equipment, man.

SPEAKER_05 2:36:24

Now now that can lead to some health issues, I've heard, right? Is that can that happen?

SPEAKER_09 2:36:28

Oh probably right, probably, but uh, you know, he's he's been a military man, you know, for for his whole life. Um well for his young part of his whole life, you know, for for his young part. So um but he did work in some of the the the GM uh dealer uh factories around here too. So you know it goes uh it's just it it's it sucks, man. It sucks.

SPEAKER_05 2:36:52

I'm sorry. Yeah, so sorry for his family, and I'm sorry for you.

SPEAKER_09 2:36:55

Yeah, uh well, thank you, but you know it's consensus. It's lost a good man, is what I'm saying. And he's still like I said, his mind was solid, just like ours. He's just he's just telling me he can't breathe. It's it's it's it's a it's a thing where your lungs they don't they're not flexible anymore. He said that just like they they harden up and they the air can't get through into the bloodstream. So he can try to take a deep breath, but the machine has to push the air in, and uh you know, it's like trying to run up and down a uh a hill with breathing through a straw. And at the top you can't catch your breath. You know, and you try to take a deep, you can try to fill your lungs up as far as you go, but they they they don't expand anymore, they just kind of they they just turn hard. And that's what he was he knew it. He's like, you know, I it was a good run. Usually around five years, what you get about on those, and that's what he said he got. He's like, I'm at my five-year diagnosis of this thing, and he says, I'm I'm right there.

SPEAKER_05 2:37:56

It seems like that would be a very stressful way to exit. It was he was just to not be able to breathe. It seems like it's just it sounds like terrible.

SPEAKER_09 2:38:05

Yeah, you ever plane in the water and you you go underwater and you might have gone a little too far and you're trying to get back up to the surface and you're you're just out of breath. Well, think about that, just standing there trying to brush your teeth. That's what that is, you know? You're trying trying to get home because you're running low on your oxygen. So you you know, if you ri you could be uh two or three football fields down from your driveway and you run out of oxygen, you might not be able to get in and hook up your oxygen tank. You might just so you're suffering, you're um suffocating is what you're doing. Yeah, your lungs, you know, yeah, it's horrible, horrible. Golly, I can't believe this. All right, brother. Yeah, all right. But that's it. Yeah, I said yeah, I sorry to leave on a downer, but listen, Bob was a great man. Great man, you know, and he faced he faced it to the end, and he um, you know, he's strong man, is what I'm saying. I I love Bob, he's an awesome dude. And uh, like I said, we'll celebrate his life on Friday with uh his family and and a lot of friends. I know there's gonna be a lot of friends there. Whole military thing's gonna be happening, and it's just you know, it's just we're we're walking that path, outcast, like like sand, trying to hold on to sand in your palm. It just you you can't.

SPEAKER_05 2:39:24

Yeah, we're gonna we're but a vapor. Yep, we're but a vapor.

SPEAKER_09 2:39:27

Yep. But we're here to do it to fight our our uh our Goliaths, and that's what we're doing. So uh a Goliath, we will go. Um, listen, if you guys like what you heard and you want to support the show, please do that. Check us out down here on the description. We have all the ways you can support the show. If you can't support financially, you can at least share, uh, share the show and tell your friends about us. All right, we're having a good time out here uh doing this live every Thursday every Monday, 7 p.m. We used to do them on uh you know Thursday, remember the the morning show. But uh, you know, we'll bring that back around when it gets cold again. Um thanks to Nelly. Nelly, excellent job tonight, brother. You did so much work that you did all the heavy lifting, is what I'm saying. Check him out. He did uh the Dancing Toaster Podcast. Uh and have a great time with it. Uh, those are some really good uh episodes that he's got over there. Uh music lover. Uh, we had uh what who else over there? Uh oh look at Nelly's in the in the rumble chat right now. Awesome. He said he had an amazing time. Let me see. The Dancing Toaster Podcast. I had such an amazing time tonight. Thank you for having me on the show. Thank you for all the kind words and encouragement. See you guys again soon. That's right, Nelly. Excellent. So um um, Ms. Melody, you were out there, and uh we we missed uh Jack Pine tonight. He is he had something else to do, but then uh Pilled over here. We had a lot of people on Pilled. Thank you guys so much for doing what you're doing over there. Pilled.net. Always fun to see you guys over there. And uh everybody else, YouTube. Uh let me look around here, Alcast. I'm trying to find uh trusty turnip, uh all of our live chat mod moderators tonight. Thank you guys so much. Um that's it, Alcast. We're gonna wrap this thing up. Don't forget, you guys, uh, just a big thank you. Thank you guys for watching us tonight. We really appreciate it. Listen, don't be threatened by the mainstream media. All right, they're fear campaigns. Rescue those in darkness all around you. Do not comply with unjust laws, mandates, or regulations. Trust your gut always, because that's God talking to you, is what I'm saying. Uh, Depp Santos, yes, thank you. I also had an amazing time. Thank you, guys, she says. Look at that outcast. So cool. So listen, God bless and stay dangerous, brothers and sisters. Stay dangerous.